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Old 02-18-2014, 05:33 PM
 
201 posts, read 265,567 times
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Haven't East/Southeast Asian countries always looked up to China? It's the strongest economic power in the region (and some argue also the most strongest in terms of military) and its over one thousand years of recorded history and culture has influenced the history and culture of its Asian neighbors. Besides, the Chinese who migrate to neighboring Asian countries are usually well-off (or eventually become so) and dominate the economy of their host country.
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Old 02-18-2014, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,302 posts, read 3,404,147 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooplaman View Post
Why? Pakistan has strong ties with Western countries especially the US. Perhaps, you are forgetting that Pakistan was the country that arranged Kissingers visit to China.
Pakistan and state sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan has always been something of a basket-case. This isn't going to change as long as the Pakistani military and intelligence service remain the most powerful forces in the country.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:32 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,362,705 times
Reputation: 15500
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post

As for tibet, you are brainwashed by English media. Tibet had a slavery system before 1949 and nobles like Dalai Lama were slave owners. Most average people didn't have accesss to basic stuff such as healthcare and education, because they were considered properties. Trust me, most of average Tibetans are a lot better off after 1949. All the nobility class were deprived their previleges and held deep grudge against the Chinese government, which US/UK smartly took advantage of and used for their own political gain.

You should really read more and have some independent thinking. All the China prosecuted Tibetans stories are nothing but US propoganda against a country it doesn't like. Today, a Tibetan enjoys far more freedom than a Han, the majority.
I have been to both China and also Tibet.

I traveled to Tibet from Nepal stopping off at many cities and towns from Changdu to Gyantse and finally onward to Lhasa, stopping off at Milarepa's Cave along the way.

By talking to ordinary Tibetan people and witnessing signs first hand of the destruction and desecration of Buddhist temples and monasteries there I have come to the conclusion that it is you who have been brainwashed by the Chinese Communist Party. HH the Dalai Lama did not own slaves ... he is a Buddhist monk ... Buddhist monks live simple lives and do not own slaves.

When the Chinese invaded Tibet they killed many people and committed attrocities. Buddhist nuns were raped. Holy places where robbed of sacred objects and destroyed.

I heard, through my Chinese/Tibetan interpreter, horror stories of the oppression and persecution

Tens of thousands of Tibetans fled as refugees ... many to northern India. There is a Tibetan government-in-exile, which is elected democratically, by the way, in Dharamsala, India. Have you ever been there? I have.

Here in Philadelphia we have thousands of Tibetan refugees; many live in my neighborhood. I am astonished you fell for the lies that try to justify the Chinese conquest of an independent country. Please don't lecture me on the subject ... I have been there and know far too many witnesses of what really happened.
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Old 02-18-2014, 06:34 PM
 
Location: NYC
90 posts, read 177,943 times
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Every East Asian country look up to China in a way. Though not necessarily to the country as it is right now. Historically China was the cultural center of East Asia and in many ways countries like South Korea and Japan holds more traditional Chinese beliefs than China does now. Fundamentally the problem with China is that China needs to rediscover its own culture rather than this amalgamation of traditional/Western/psuedo-Communism.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:22 PM
 
1,846 posts, read 1,679,690 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
Pakistan and state sponsored terrorism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan has always been something of a basket-case. This isn't going to change as long as the Pakistani military and intelligence service remain the most powerful forces in the country.
Something tells me your heritage is Indian...

Pakistan's military and intelligence agencies are just looking out for the countries interests. Go take a look at the economic performance of the country and how relations with the US were always stronger under a military Government.

Those men fighting the Indian forces in Kashmir are freedom fighters rather India wants to see it that way or not it is their problem. India is the one that has created the problem in Kashmir and to expect Pakistan to sit back and not get involved is a pathetically naive understanding of geopolitics on your side.

It's funny Indians always bring this topic up but shy away when they are confronted about the insurgencies they support in Pakistan. Hell they will outright deny causing trouble! So either RAW is a useless piece of crap intelligence agency or both Pakistan and India are playing the game.

I am not going to let you spread disinformation in this section to try to push your pro India and anti-Pakistan agenda.

Last edited by hooplaman; 02-18-2014 at 08:30 PM..
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,280,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aceofangel View Post
Every East Asian country look up to China in a way. Though not necessarily to the country as it is right now. Historically China was the cultural center of East Asia and in many ways countries like South Korea and Japan holds more traditional Chinese beliefs than China does now. Fundamentally the problem with China is that China needs to rediscover its own culture rather than this amalgamation of traditional/Western/psuedo-Communism.
Japan certainly was influenced by Chinese culture but I don't know about this, Japanese culture is very unique in it's own way.
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:20 AM
 
268 posts, read 325,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
I have been to both China and also Tibet.

I traveled to Tibet from Nepal stopping off at many cities and towns from Changdu to Gyantse and finally onward to Lhasa, stopping off at Milarepa's Cave along the way.

By talking to ordinary Tibetan people and witnessing signs first hand of the destruction and desecration of Buddhist temples and monasteries there I have come to the conclusion that it is you who have been brainwashed by the Chinese Communist Party. HH the Dalai Lama did not own slaves ... he is a Buddhist monk ... Buddhist monks live simple lives and do not own slaves.
The end may not justify the means for many people, but you can't deny that Tibet would be far less prosperous had the Chinese government not did whatever it did to make it happen. And it might not have been slavery in a traditional sense, but it was definitely a serfdom. It's reasonable to believe that the Dalai Lama, despite being a Buddhist monk, was simply the lord of the manor and people were subservient to him, similar to that of slaves to their master, only with greater freedom. I too have been/lived in China in a city with a lot of Tibetans.

The question is: would you rather see Tibet as a completely independent nation, most likely suffering with problems of poor education, infrastructure and healthcare? Or as attached to the heel of China, whom perhaps undermines the Tibetan culture and way of life, but improves the living standards of everyone to a level that would otherwise not be possible to achieve?
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Old 02-19-2014, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,280,333 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guawazi View Post
The end may not justify the means for many people, but you can't deny that Tibet would be far less prosperous had the Chinese government not did whatever it did to make it happen. And it might not have been slavery in a traditional sense, but it was definitely a serfdom. It's reasonable to believe that the Dalai Lama, despite being a Buddhist monk, was simply the lord of the manor and people were subservient to him, similar to that of slaves to their master, only with greater freedom. I too have been/lived in China in a city with a lot of Tibetans.

The question is: would you rather see Tibet as a completely independent nation, most likely suffering with problems of poor education, infrastructure and healthcare? Or as attached to the heel of China, whom perhaps undermines the Tibetan culture and way of life, but improves the living standards of everyone to a level that would otherwise not be possible to achieve?
It's a shame that a middle way could not be reached (excuse the pun, haha). I feel it could work if China just respected other cultures more, but it doesn't even seem to respect the variation within the monolithic 'Han' ethnicity (like the 'dialects' of the Southeast). An independent Tibetan state would be an interesting proposition, wonder whether it'd be a dictatorial theocracy or a benevolent one like Bhutan. Either way I think the llamas really were like the lords over the serfs/people. I mean just look at the Potala palace in Lhasa, how do monks who want to eschew worldly wealth and splendour justify living in such grandiosity? lol
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Old 02-19-2014, 12:09 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
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Tibet hadn't been "independent" since the 13th century. All this "free tibet" movement supported by western powers is really laughable.

China's history is long and complicated, with relationship between various regions/powers in constant change. If Tibet were an independent nation, many of the southwest regions should be too. Maybe Xinjiang as well? Inner Mongolia?

To claim Tibet is an independent nation is like saying Scotland and Wales are their own countries too. You can't turn back time by 1000 years and say that's how nations should be defined.

Before being taken by China, temples in Tibet use slaves to work for them. Dalai Lama like other monks belonged to the noble class and had slaves/serfs, whatever you call them. These people didn't have personal freedom nor any rights.The first thing China did was finally outlaw that sort of thing. Does anyone actually believe it was wrong and the monks should maintain their status as slave owners?

I dont deny China didn't respect local culture enough which resulted in local resentment to some extent, but it will be stupid to claim that Tibet should be an independent country and it suffered from the Chinese ruling. Look at all the infrastructure China has built for Tibet, the schools and hospitals that were made available to poor people, I call that a progress, and Dalai Lama would never have done that.

By the way, Dalai is not the spiritual leader of Tibet. He is just one of the high lamas (yellow hat) who is used as a puppet by western countries and therefore got so much fame. He himself doesn't represent Tibet at all.
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Old 02-19-2014, 03:28 PM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,477 posts, read 2,376,545 times
Reputation: 1819
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Tibet hadn't been "independent" since the 13th century. All this "free tibet" movement supported by western powers is really laughable.

China's history is long and complicated, with relationship between various regions/powers in constant change. If Tibet were an independent nation, many of the southwest regions should be too. Maybe Xinjiang as well? Inner Mongolia?

To claim Tibet is an independent nation is like saying Scotland and Wales are their own countries too. You can't turn back time by 1000 years and say that's how nations should be defined.

Before being taken by China, temples in Tibet use slaves to work for them. Dalai Lama like other monks belonged to the noble class and had slaves/serfs, whatever you call them. These people didn't have personal freedom nor any rights.The first thing China did was finally outlaw that sort of thing. Does anyone actually believe it was wrong and the monks should maintain their status as slave owners?

I dont deny China didn't respect local culture enough which resulted in local resentment to some extent, but it will be stupid to claim that Tibet should be an independent country and it suffered from the Chinese ruling. Look at all the infrastructure China has built for Tibet, the schools and hospitals that were made available to poor people, I call that a progress, and Dalai Lama would never have done that.

By the way, Dalai is not the spiritual leader of Tibet. He is just one of the high lamas (yellow hat) who is used as a puppet by western countries and therefore got so much fame. He himself doesn't represent Tibet at all.
Strange argument - Tibet was never independent so it was okay for China to send their army in and take it over. But if they weren't independent, why would China even need to invade? To me the history is a moot point - if you had allowed Tibetans to vote on whether to become part of China back in the 1950s (before they were outnumbered by the Han settlers) then you would almost certainly have an independent Tibet today.
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