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View Poll Results: Is China helping or hurting Africa
Overall hurting 14 73.68%
Overall helping 5 26.32%
Voters: 19. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-23-2014, 07:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
Because he is American? I am pretty sure most Chinese nationals think the world would be better off with their country as the dominant power just as most Americans feel the same about the US as the dominant power.
haha, it applies to US pet countries such as Canada, Japan, UK etc who know they are not strong enough to dominate anything but resort to the second best option: American domination and protection.

I pity those pet countries which pretend to be "allies" of the US, which assumes it is an equal relationship like UK-France-Germany when in fact there is nothing equal about it. They are nothing but lackeys without much of an independent foreign policy (Canada doesn't even have an independent monetary policy, Bank of Canada basically follows every step of the Feds ).
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Reynosa
42 posts, read 61,635 times
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I am sorry, but China really is exploiting Africa.

And they are now setting view for Mexico and Latin America I am afraid.
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Old 02-25-2014, 10:40 PM
 
6 posts, read 4,915 times
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Did the developed countries exploited or helped China when it was much poorer????????
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:31 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeinChina View Post
I'll take a world dominated by the U.S. any day rather then a world dominated by the Chinese.......
Nobody knows since nobody has ever tried a world dominated by China,so you're just extrapolating,i don't think,it will ever happen,China has no ambition of dominating the world
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Old 02-26-2014, 09:35 PM
 
4,654 posts, read 3,708,197 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReynosenseConsternado View Post
I am sorry, but China really is exploiting Africa.

And they are now setting view for Mexico and Latin America I am afraid.
and i think,it's a bad idea,whoever allow his country to be dominated,should not complain about it.

So far africans are happy with chinese exploitation,it is bringing jobs,education,investments so africans are not tired yet of chinese domination,actually more africans countries are asking China to come "exploit" them and their countries.
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Old 02-26-2014, 11:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scobby View Post
investments so africans are not tired yet of chinese domination
only until the hypothetical future when all natural resources from Africa have been mined and depleted..
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Old 02-27-2014, 08:24 AM
 
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Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
only until the hypothetical future when all natural resources from Africa have been mined and depleted..
These countries export their resources, it is called "Trading", what's so exploitory about that?

Canada exports 100% of its oil to the United States, does that mean the poor Canadians are exploited by America?
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Old 02-27-2014, 03:32 PM
 
201 posts, read 264,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
These countries export their resources, it is called "Trading", what's so exploitory about that?
Let's compare the exports between these trading partners:

Quote:
Chinese exports to Africa
The Chinese diaspora first reactivated its familial links in order to import low-priced goods such cups, forks,cellular phone, radio, television sets and umbrellas to Africa[37] Indeed, African society has a screaming need for cheap goods in large quantities. China's manufacturing industry is truly complementary to African markets, often producing more cheaply than most African manufacturers can, and with better quality.[37] Cheap Chinese clothes,[38] and cheap Chinese cars at half the price of western ones allow African customers to suddenly raise up the purchasing power.[39]
In Africa, China may sell its own low quality or overproduced goods and inventory,[25] a key outlet which helps maintain China's economic and social stability. Chinese shopowners in Africa are able to sell Chinese-built, Chinese-shipped goods for a profit. A negative consequence of China's low-cost consumer goods trade is that it only goes one way. China does not purchase manufactured products from Africa,[40] while cheap Chinese imports flood the local marketplace, making it difficult for local industries to compete.[41]
A noticeable case is the Chinese textile industry, which has hit Africa like a tsunami. In many countries, textiles are one of the first manufacturing industries to develop, but the African textile industry has been crippled by competition[26] The negative consequences are not easily resolved: African consumers give praise to Chinese textiles, and they are often the first clothes they can afford to buy new; yet local manufactures are badly wounded, raising opposition and concern over the loss of local jobs.
Africa is seen by Chinese businessmen as 900 million potential customers in a fast-growing market,.[25] Perhaps more importantly, African societies are far from market saturation, like their Western counterparts. Thus, in Africa, China finds not only an ample supply of potential new customers but far less competition from other nations.
Quote:

African exports to China

In the other direction, China's growing thirst for raw materials led African state-owned enterprises to the country with natural resources, such as wood and minerals (like those from the Gabonese forests). By the end of the 1990s, China had become interested in African oil, too.
Over time, African laws adapted to China's demand, laws intended to force the local transformation of raw materials for export. This led to a new kind of manufacturing in Africa, managed by the Chinese, with African workers producing exports for Chinese, as well as European, American and Japanese customers.[37] African leaders have pursued an increase of the share of raw material transformation both to add value to their exports and to provide manufacturing jobs for local Africans.
China's oil purchases have raised oil prices, boosting the government revenues of oil exporters like Angola, Gabon and Nigeria, while hurting the other oil-importing African countries. At the same time, China's raw materials purchases have increased prices for copper, timber, and nickel, which benefits many African countries as well.[26]
While African growth from 2000 to 2005 averaged 4.7% per year, almost twice the growth has come from petroleum-exporting countries (2005: 7.4%; 2006: 6.7%; 2007: 9.1%) than from petroleum-importing countries (2005: 4.5%; 2006: 4.8%; 2007: 4.5%).[42]
During the year 2011, trade between Africa and China increased a staggering 33% from the previous year to US $166 billion. This included Chinese imports from Africa equalling US $93 billion, consisting largely of mineral ores, petroleum, and agricultural products and Chinese exports to Africa totalling $93 billion, consisting largely of manufactured goods.[43] Outlining the rapidly expanding trade between the African continent and China, trade between these two areas of the world increased further by over 22% year-over-year to US $80.5 billion during the first five months of the year 2012.[43] Imports from Africa were up 25.5% to $49.6 billion during these first five months of 2012 and exports of Chinese-made products, such as machinery, electrical and consumer goods and clothing/footwear increased 17.5% to reach $30.9 billion.[43] China remained Africa's largest trading partner during 2011 for the fourth consecutive year (starting in 2008). To put the entire trade between China and Africa into perspective, during the early 1960s trade between these two large parts of the world were in the mere hundreds of millions of dollars back then. Europe dominated African trade during these formative years of European decolonization process in the African continent. Even as early as the 1980s, trade between China and Africa was minuscule. Trade between China and Africa largely grew exponentially following China's joining of the World Trade Organization (WTO) and the opening up of China to emigration (of Chinese people to Africa) and the free movement of companies, peoples, and products both to and from the African continent starting from the early 2000 onwards.
To summarize those walls of text, China is giving Africa its cheap, manufactured goods (which outcompetes local African manufacturers) in exchange for raw materials from Africa. It's obvious that the trading partner who receives raw material has the upper hand. Africa is increasingly economic-dependent on China if it keeps going at this rate.

If you fail to see the exploitation here then there is nothing further to discuss.

Last edited by kanjelman7; 02-27-2014 at 03:56 PM..
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Old 02-27-2014, 06:51 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,258,456 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
Let's compare the exports between these trading partners:

To summarize those walls of text, China is giving Africa its cheap, manufactured goods (which outcompetes local African manufacturers) in exchange for raw materials from Africa. It's obvious that the trading partner who receives raw material has the upper hand. Africa is increasingly economic-dependent on China if it keeps going at this rate.

If you fail to see the exploitation here then there is nothing further to discuss.
where is your logic?

Of course China exports cheap products to Africa, because that's what those countries can afford. Your quote clearly says African countries are in desperate need of these products. You probably have never lived in a poor country and just assuming "low quality products" are just bad. For Christ's sake, do you expect people in Angola and Nigeria to buy organic food and plasma TV from the Chinese companies? Or High speed rail technology? Are you kidding me?

What they need are something for very basic life necessities, and China is exactly the country to meet that demand. Why don't the US and UK produce cheap plastic containers or toys for African countries? Wait, it won't be cheap. China produced cheap cars sold even sold in these countries -- that's so evil, those people deserve Cadillacs, not Geely!

As to China not buy manufactured goods from Africa, isn't it obvious? China is able to produce the low end products by itself and there is an over supply, and apparently for the high end products, Africa is unable to provide. It is called business.

Australia also exports large amounts of resources to China every year and imports tons of cheap stuff from China too. Does that mean China is exploiting Australia as well?

Canada's PM is threatening US president if the Keystone project is not approved, Canada will be ready to ship oil and natural gas to China. I guess Canada simply can't wait to be exploited too?

Your bias against China is ridiculous. What countries in doing trade don't seek to benefit themselves? You think the US is such a kind country that only has African countries best interest at heart? Whenever the US does something for Africa, there is always strings attached. China never asks for that. They are simply doing business, and nobody is forcing Angola to export its oil and buy cheap products from China.

As for China's demand pushing resource prices, what a load of crap! So China should stop growing because oil price might increase?? Why don't the American stop driving so much and waste so many energy and give oil prices a break? Why don't US stop flooding the world with cheap USD which pushes even food price significant causing widespread famine? Gosh, such double standard hypocrisy is disgusting and someone still pretends to hold the moral high grounds accusing other countries like a natural habit.
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Old 03-01-2014, 01:06 AM
 
201 posts, read 264,931 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
where is your logic?

Of course China exports cheap products to Africa, because that's what those countries can afford. Your quote clearly says African countries are in desperate need of these products. You probably have never lived in a poor country and just assuming "low quality products" are just bad. For Christ's sake, do you expect people in Angola and Nigeria to buy organic food and plasma TV from the Chinese companies? Or High speed rail technology? Are you kidding me?
It seems you need to be questioning your logic as well. The point was not China selling its cheap products to Africa, but that China is getting the better end of this deal, plain and simple. Weren't you asking in a previous post how their business relationship was "exploitory" in nature? From a neutral point of view, it's clearly obvious that cheap goods for raw materials isn't really a "fair" trade. It doesn't matter which two trading partners are doing this. In this case, it is happening between Africa and China.

Quote:
Australia also exports large amounts of resources to China every year and imports tons of cheap stuff from China too. Does that mean China is exploiting Australia as well?
It's funny how you try to twist it by using counter-examples with Australia and Canada (both first world countries) yet fail to address the effects of Africa's loss of local jobs, its own textile industry being unable to compete, etc. As first-world countries, Australia and Canada have leverage and won't unknowingly give their resources to another nation if they didn't think they could benefit from that business relationship. What leverage does Africa have as a developing continent? Yes, let's just entice and distract Africans with cheaply made goods while we take their precious natural resources away (that they could be using themselves).

Just to be fair, Africa is partly at fault here too for allowing itself to be in this business deal. A trading relationship between Africa and China is not inherently bad, it's just that the exports between the two tip overwhelmingly in favor of China.

Quote:
Your bias against China is ridiculous. What countries in doing trade don't seek to benefit themselves? You think the US is such a kind country that only has African countries best interest at heart? Whenever the US does something for Africa, there is always strings attached. China never asks for that. They are simply doing business, and nobody is forcing Angola to export its oil and buy cheap products from China.
It's so funny how you quickly assume that someone who is "anti-China" is automatically "pro-American." Also, it could have been any other country (say India, for example) and I would have said the same thing. In other words, you misconstrue me as being anti-China. My main point is that I think it's unfair for a developed country (in this case, China) to exploit a developing country (in this case, Africa). Why don't you ask yourself that question about trading countries seeking to benefit themselves? How will Africa's business relationship with China help it become a developed continent someday? Instead of just giving Africa some cheap manufactured goods, Africa should have traded its natural resources in exchange for infrastructure so it can have capital to build on. But of course, that won't happen because many parts of Africa are unstable and corrupted. When your trading partner is in such a state, who needs to "force" anyone to sell its natural resources? On that note, I'll give credit for China for seizing this economy opportunity despite its moral shortcomings. On that note, what are some Chinese charitable organizations currently operating in Africa that are analogous to its western counterparts?

Quote:
Gosh, such double standard hypocrisy is disgusting and someone still pretends to hold the moral high grounds accusing other countries like a natural habit.
Yes, because making blind assumptions about another person based on previous posts is not a disgusting natural habit at all.

Last edited by kanjelman7; 03-01-2014 at 01:19 AM..
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