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Old 02-22-2014, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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^ 'Southeast Asian' and 'Northeast Asian' is such an umbrella term. So you would say an Evenki/Tungid is closer to a Hainanese or a Zhuang, than the latter is to a Vietnamese or highland Lao?
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:33 AM
 
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
^ 'Southeast Asian' and 'Northeast Asian' is such an umbrella term. So you would say an Evenki/Tungid is closer to a Hainanese or a Zhuang, than the latter is to a Vietnamese or highland Lao?
The source did not specify which type of people they used, but there's the general idea of the genetic distance between the "typical" NEA and SEA at least. Probably something like N.Chinese vs Malay. Hainanese/Zhuang are clearly not what people think of when they think NEA, or even EA. Some of them barely looked East Asian, and some Vietnamese/Lao barely looked Southeast Asian. But clearly we're not talking about the middle ground here, or else foreigners might as well lump them all together based on appearance.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:38 AM
 
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East Asians and Southeast Asians generally look close enough to be lumped together. There are some Southeast Asian individuals who dont look similar to East Asians at all, so they'll get lumped with other groups, or people will just be confused about them.
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Old 02-22-2014, 01:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
East Asians and Southeast Asians generally look close enough to be lumped together. There are some Southeast Asian individuals who dont look similar to East Asians at all, so they'll get lumped with other groups, or people will just be confused about them.
A typical Chinese and a typical Malay look very different.
Anyone can tell the difference.

Central Asians (e.g. uyghurs) can look from very European to very east Asian.
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Old 02-22-2014, 04:07 PM
 
Location: East coast
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Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
^You are making the assumption that the primary difference between human societies is genetic rather than cultural.
Exactly.

If I wanted to class South-east Asians and East Asians together, it is more reasonable to justify that by their cultures being more similar to each other than to any other one (which is a better argument than looks or genetic distance) and themselves seeing each other more like belonging to one group relative to other Asians.
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Old 02-22-2014, 09:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
Exactly.

If I wanted to class South-east Asians and East Asians together, it is more reasonable to justify that by their cultures being more similar to each other than to any other one (which is a better argument than looks or genetic distance) and themselves seeing each other more like belonging to one group relative to other Asians.
I'd say it's all a matter of perspective. Just because A is closer to B than it is to C, doesn't mean that A and B are similar or even remotely similar at all. Aliens might lump all humans together, but the difference is still there.
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Old 02-22-2014, 11:42 PM
 
Location: Jersey
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Originally Posted by Bastardised View Post
Culture is shaped by the collective genes of a group to a certain extent.
The genetic composition of a group would have a minimal effect if any on shaping, influencing, or determining their culture unless there are sociological(cultural) factors at play such as the Black/White dichotomy in the US; and even then, it isn't genes themselves that create the phenomenon.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by Bastardised View Post
The source did not specify which type of people they used, but there's the general idea of the genetic distance between the "typical" NEA and SEA at least. Probably something like N.Chinese vs Malay. Hainanese/Zhuang are clearly not what people think of when they think NEA, or even EA. Some of them barely looked East Asian, and some Vietnamese/Lao barely looked Southeast Asian. But clearly we're not talking about the middle ground here, or else foreigners might as well lump them all together based on appearance.
And what is that middle ground? How do they even come up with that?

NEA is a region, not a genetic clustering. Same with SEA. Don't get those confused. Vietnamese are closer to Chinese than they are to Malays, Southern Chinese closer to Vietnamese than Mongolians, Mongolians closer to some Tungids than Southern Chinese.
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
A typical Chinese and a typical Malay look very different.
Anyone can tell the difference.

Central Asians (e.g. uyghurs) can look from very European to very east Asian.
Yes and no. Malay's seem to vary in looks, especially in Singapore. Some Malays look Southern Chinese (albeit some have Chinese ancestry or might be converts). Also some Chinese look Malay, due to the Austronesian influence. Also in Indonesia, some Javanese look classically oriental even with the epicanthic folds, just with darker skin. Not all Indonesian natives have large wide eyes and prominent brow ridges. I think there's something to be said for a pan-Mongoloid 'type', as the old (if outdated) 'racial scientists' classified them.

It's still fairly obvious an Indonesian is closer to a Korean than either are to a Caucasian. Genetic studies have sort of suggested this. So yes, NEA and SEA Asians cluster together more than either is to Indians or something (with a few exceptions). Looks aren't always a guide to genetic relatedness. A Papuan is closer to a European than an African, despite looking more like a 'black person.'
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Old 02-23-2014, 12:41 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
The genetic composition of a group would have a minimal effect if any on shaping, influencing, or determining their culture unless there are sociological(cultural) factors at play such as the Black/White dichotomy in the US; and even then, it isn't genes themselves that create the phenomenon.
Definitely. Culture is transmitted with close geographical proximity so similar looking people TEND to have similar culture, but of course these days with mass-migrations things get complicated. Hungarians not speaking an IE language, for instance. Does that make Sri Lankan Sinhalese, who also speak an IE language, closer to Czechs than Hungarians? Of course not. An African and a white American are of course culturally a lot similar than either is to an African or say a Pole from Poland.
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