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Old 02-23-2014, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardised View Post
Spaniards
German
Japanese
Filipina
Fair Filipina
Japanese-Filipina

Spaniards and Germans very much share caucasoid-like features and facial structure, such as the deep eyes, high nose bridge, relatively wider lips, chiselled features, etc. You can't say the same for Japanese and Filipino. The Japanese-Filipina mix doesn't even look Japanese, she looks like a light-skinned Malay to me. The difference is so clear that I've yet to hear foreigners talk about how they confused Filipinos and other East Asians.
And you're the expert? There are many cranial similarities between Japanese and Filipinos. Plus genetic studies have shown that they are close on a world-level. Japanese vary a lot, some look like this:

http://renegadecinema.com/wp-content...anabe46422.jpg

He could pass as Polynesian and looks more Caucasoid than most Filipinos, no doubt about it...

No doubt there are significant differences between the average native Filipino and Japan in general: a more pronounced brow, wider nose, less prevalence of epicanthic folds and darker skin, for instance, but they both share many things in common of course which they do not share with other 'races' and there's overlap too.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
And you're the expert? There are many cranial similarities between Japanese and Filipinos. Plus genetic studies have shown that they are close on a world-level. Japanese vary a lot, some look like this:

http://renegadecinema.com/wp-content...anabe46422.jpg

He could pass as Polynesian and looks more Caucasoid than most Filipinos, no doubt about it...

No doubt there are significant differences between the average native Filipino and Japan in general: a more pronounced brow, wider nose, less prevalence of epicanthic folds and darker skin, for instance, but they both share many things in common of course which they do not share with other 'races' and there's overlap too.
Again with the A is closer to B than to C logic. Whites and Indians still share more physical similarities than between Japanese and Filipino. What's your point exactly?

And it's always the same Japanese used everytime. Ken Watanabe actually looks pretty eastern, he may not look exactly typical but he wouldn't stand out in any parts of East Asia. Using someone like Ken Hirai would illustrate your point much better.

The difference is more than just a more pronounced brow, wider nose, less prevalence of epicanthic folds and darker skin or whatever. Southeast Asians have a distinguishing facial structure of their own. Just look at this woman posted by stevania earlier. Does she look East Asian to you? On the other hand you have someone like Sun Yat Sen who look much more East Asian than most Filipinos.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:13 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardised View Post
Again with the A is closer to B than to C logic. Whites and Indians still share more physical similarities than between Japanese and Filipino. What's your point exactly?

And it's always the same Japanese used everytime. Ken Watanabe actually looks pretty eastern, he may not look exactly typical but he wouldn't stand out in any parts of East Asia. Using someone like Ken Hirai would illustrate your point much better.

The difference is more than just a more pronounced brow, wider nose, less prevalence of epicanthic folds and darker skin or whatever. Southeast Asians have a distinguishing facial structure of their own. Just look at this woman posted by stevania earlier. Does she look East Asian to you? On the other hand you have someone like Sun Yat Sen who look much more East Asian than most Filipinos.
Whites and Indians have more similarities? Dunno about that. One study suggested Cambodians and Koreans were similar to Finns and Italians in difference. Which Indians, anyway? Those from the Punjab, Bihar or Tamil Nadu? India itself is so diverse.

He doesn't look typical Japanese, but his look is not rare in Japan either. There are also Japanese people with hairy chests, maybe it's the Ainu influence.

Well those are some features. It's a matter of degrees. If Tungids were one extreme, and Australoids were one extreme, I'd say as you went south the features you gradually change. There's no magical line between SEA and NEA. N. Chinese, Mongolians, Jurchen, Koreans.etc will differ from Southern Chinese, Hmong, highland Lao, Dai, Zhuang, She. Also where would you place Karen, Naga, Sherpas or natives of Eastern India? It's silly to say NEA and SEA.

She does look East Asian, certainly a lot moreso than Ken Watanabe. SYS looks almost European in some pics.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:47 PM
 
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well there's a lot of different looks in the Philippines...

random Manila people

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNTLtWS4HzQ

most of the people look Mongoloid enough to be thrown into the East Asian/Southeast Asian larger category, but some look too Australoid/ambiguous

He also has videos from a lot of other countries
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Whites and Indians have more similarities? Dunno about that. One study suggested Cambodians and Koreans were similar to Finns and Italians in difference. Which Indians, anyway? Those from the Punjab, Bihar or Tamil Nadu? India itself is so diverse.

He doesn't look typical Japanese, but his look is not rare in Japan either. There are also Japanese people with hairy chests, maybe it's the Ainu influence.

Well those are some features. It's a matter of degrees. If Tungids were one extreme, and Australoids were one extreme, I'd say as you went south the features you gradually change. There's no magical line between SEA and NEA. N. Chinese, Mongolians, Jurchen, Koreans.etc will differ from Southern Chinese, Hmong, highland Lao, Dai, Zhuang, She. Also where would you place Karen, Naga, Sherpas or natives of Eastern India? It's silly to say NEA and SEA.

She does look East Asian, certainly a lot moreso than Ken Watanabe. SYS looks almost European in some pics.
Indians are part of the Caucasoid race so they have Caucasian features. What's the similarity between the East and Southeast Asian again?

Just because there's a gradient doesn't mean that there aren't any distinct differences. N.Chinese, Koreans and Japanese would be a good representation of NEA and Malays, Cambodians for SEA. Mongolians are Northern Asians. There's no magical line between Whites and Asian either. I remember seeing some pale Arab tourists (I'm just assuming here, they seem to be Muslim) who have a good blend of White and East Asian features. That doesn't mean that the genetic distance between the typical Europeans and East Asians cannot be measured on a scale.

And saying that Southeast Asian woman looks much more East Asian than Ken Watanabe has to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard in years. Ken Watanabe can walk through any East Asian city and not get noticed at all. How does he not look East Asian again?

http://static.digitalhit.com/sag/10/sag04-27.jpg
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news_im...9-72792279.jpg
http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Ope...er=allrovi.com

What makes him sooo different from this northern Chinese man in front view?

He looks 10x more East Asian than that woman earlier.

Quote:
One study suggested Cambodians and Koreans were similar to Finns and Italians in difference
Not in looks.
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Old 02-23-2014, 09:38 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardised View Post
Indians are part of the Caucasoid race so they have Caucasian features. What's the similarity between the East and Southeast Asian again?

Just because there's a gradient doesn't mean that there aren't any distinct differences. N.Chinese, Koreans and Japanese would be a good representation of NEA and Malays, Cambodians for SEA. Mongolians are Northern Asians. There's no magical line between Whites and Asian either. I remember seeing some pale Arab tourists (I'm just assuming here, they seem to be Muslim) who have a good blend of White and East Asian features. That doesn't mean that the genetic distance between the typical Europeans and East Asians cannot be measured on a scale.

And saying that Southeast Asian woman looks much more East Asian than Ken Watanabe has to be the most ridiculous thing I've heard in years. Ken Watanabe can walk through any East Asian city and not get noticed at all. How does he not look East Asian again?

http://static.digitalhit.com/sag/10/sag04-27.jpg
http://www.theepochtimes.com/news_im...9-72792279.jpg
http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/2/Ope...er=allrovi.com

What makes him sooo different from this northern Chinese man in front view?

He looks 10x more East Asian than that woman earlier.



Not in looks.
Because they have Mongoloid features . I don't really believe in the 'four race' theory, but I guess these terms are sort of useful in thinking of 'types.'

Mongoloid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



These are pure Javanese women...they obviously look Asian. I've been to Bali...yes they look different from central Chinese, but in their basic type/shape it is clear they are more of that type than anything else. Some even have epicanthic folds. Some could easily pass as a S. Chinese too.


No there isn't, races are not fixed groups just gradients. That's why it's silly to say 'SEA's' and 'NEA's'. Maybe saying Malayo-Polynesians, or something.

Yes...ask 10 people and 9 will be sure that the girl is some kind of Asian, while many will think Ken is maybe Eurasian, Pacific Islander etc. Let the people on here decide who they think looks more typically Asian or East Asian if you like.

Yes, some Chinese ppl look kind of European, with their sharper, more pointed noses and narrow, elongated faces. That's nothing new. This look is even more common in Japan.
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Old 02-23-2014, 10:43 PM
 
101 posts, read 230,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Because they have Mongoloid features . I don't really believe in the 'four race' theory, but I guess these terms are sort of useful in thinking of 'types.'

Mongoloid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



These are pure Javanese women...they obviously look Asian. I've been to Bali...yes they look different from central Chinese, but in their basic type/shape it is clear they are more of that type than anything else. Some even have epicanthic folds. Some could easily pass as a S. Chinese too.


No there isn't, races are not fixed groups just gradients. That's why it's silly to say 'SEA's' and 'NEA's'. Maybe saying Malayo-Polynesians, or something.

Yes...ask 10 people and 9 will be sure that the girl is some kind of Asian, while many will think Ken is maybe Eurasian, Pacific Islander etc. Let the people on here decide who they think looks more typically Asian or East Asian if you like.

Yes, some Chinese ppl look kind of European, with their sharper, more pointed noses and narrow, elongated faces. That's nothing new. This look is even more common in Japan.
"Mongoloid" is such a broad term here, it's just an artificial title coined by man. Having epicanthic fold alone will not make you look like another person who has epicanthic fold. Even if we assume that these oh so mongoloid looking Javanese are included in the SEA vs NEA genetic distance battle, there's no saying that they will make the genetic distance any closer than if they weren't included.

Compared to the term "mongoloid", "Caucasoid" is actually a much more valid term to define a race. At least they share similar features like relatively prominent brow ridges, deep round eyes, prominent nose bridge and wider lips (compared to the East Asian narrow lips). Not only that, they even place directly next to each other on the genetic distance scale. Can you say the same of all these for the "Mongoloid" race?

And yes those girls you posted and the one earlier all look Asian. They look like they're from the Asia continent. I believe all the foreigners agree as long as they know the existence of Southeast Asians. But not Chinese, Japanese, Korean.

Ken and the other guy I posted look like my relatives' relative's relative's relative if you get what I mean. Nothing special really except for his lack of epicanthic fold. Of course they're common in Japan. Japan is mostly East Asian afterall. Ken even resembles some HK actor that I can only faintly recall. I used to watch a lot of HK series as a kid. The only picture where he doesn't look so East Asian is this and the one you posted the first time. But that has a lot to do with the lighting as well.

Last edited by Bastardised; 02-23-2014 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 02-23-2014, 11:23 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,228,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bastardised View Post
"Mongoloid" is such a broad term here, it's just an artificial title coined by man. Having epicanthic fold alone will not make you look like another person who has epicanthic fold. Even if we assume that these oh so mongoloid looking Javanese are included in the SEA vs NEA genetic distance battle, there's no saying that they will make the genetic distance any closer than if they weren't included.

Compared to the term "mongoloid", "Caucasoid" is actually a much more valid term to define a race. At least they share similar features like relatively prominent brow ridges, deep round eyes, prominent nose bridge and wider lips (compared to the East Asian narrow lips). Not only that, they even place directly next to each other on the genetic distance scale. Can you say the same of all these for the "Mongoloid" race?

And yes those girls you posted and the one earlier all look Asian. They look like they're from the Asia continent. I believe all the foreigners agree as long as they know the existence of Southeast Asians. But not Chinese, Japanese, Korean.

Ken and the other guy I posted look like my relatives' relative's relative's relative if you get what I mean. Nothing special really except for his lack of epicanthic fold. Of course they're common in Japan. Japan is mostly East Asian afterall. Ken even resembles some HK actor that I can only faintly recall. I used to watch a lot of HK series as a kid. The only picture where he doesn't look so East Asian is this and the one you posted the first time. But that has a lot to do with the lighting as well.
Get real, the term 'Caucasoid' (which is also considered outdated) is no more valid than Mongoloid. This is based on actual genetic distances between Asian populations not subjective looks.

Read the wiki article I linked you and it will describe the typical 'Mongoloid' traits. Neotony or thicker hair, for instance, is something East Asian populations share.

She could easily pass in China or the Philippines...

Wider lips? Proves you don't know what you're talking about. Caucasoids are considered the have the thinnest lips, then Mongoloids with Negroids having the thickest. South-East Asians in particular are known for having thicker lips and this is evident in Southern Chinese.

Yes some Chinese and Japanese could almost pass for Caucasoid, or at least proto-Mongoloid/Polynesian.

This is a genetic distance map of major populations:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ne...ing_Tree-2.png
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:39 AM
 
101 posts, read 230,777 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Get real, the term 'Caucasoid' (which is also considered outdated) is no more valid than Mongoloid. This is based on actual genetic distances between Asian populations not subjective looks.

Read the wiki article I linked you and it will describe the typical 'Mongoloid' traits. Neotony or thicker hair, for instance, is something East Asian populations share.

She could easily pass in China or the Philippines...

Wider lips? Proves you don't know what you're talking about. Caucasoids are considered the have the thinnest lips, then Mongoloids with Negroids having the thickest. South-East Asians in particular are known for having thicker lips and this is evident in Southern Chinese.

Yes some Chinese and Japanese could almost pass for Caucasoid, or at least proto-Mongoloid/Polynesian.

This is a genetic distance map of major populations:

File:Neighbor-joining Tree-2.png - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It doesn't take a genius to see the relationship between an Indian and a European.

Meanwhile, "Mongoloid" traits:

Quote:
fairly large and protruding cheekbones - varied nasal bones that are flat and broad - varied, a nasal bridge that is slightly concave without depression in the nasion, "the lower borders of the piriform aperature are not sharp but guttered", shallow prenasal fossae, small anterior nasal spine, trace amounts of canine fossae and moderate alveolar prognathism - typical East Asians don't have prognathism

long and broad skulls of intermediate height, arched sagittal contour, very wide facial contour - varied, high face height - only for North/East Asian, rounded orbital opening, narrow nasal opening, wide, flat nasal bones, sharp lower nasal margin, straight facial profile, moderate and white palate shape, 90%+ shovel-shaped incisors and large, smooth general form

Larger brain, larger braincase, broader skull, broader face - compared to Whites, flat roof of the nose - mostly, inner eye fold - check. but more so for N/EA, more protuberant eyes, lack of brow ridges - moreso for N/EA, greater delicacy of bones, shallow mandibular fossa, small mastoid processes, stocky build - varied, persistence of thymus gland into adult life, persistence of juvenile form of zygomatic muscle, persistence of juvenile form of superior lip muscle, later eruption of full dentition (except second and third molars), less hairy - less than Whites, fewer sweat glands - less than Whites, fewer hairs per square centimeter [and] long torso - longer than Whites
The ones I didn't comment on are those I'm not sure of or too mumbo jumbo to me. Seems outdated at best except for the 3rd paragraph which is mostly true for N/East Asians. If these were all true then you'd expect everyone under the Mongoloid category to resemble each other more. I wouldn't consider Southeast Asians neotenized really. How often do you see a pretty Southeast Asian dude?

I don't know about you, but she'll definitely get mistaken as Ibans (not Malays since they cover their heads) by the Chinese where I live. And almost all of us are from the deep south, though above Canton.

LOL. I said wider lips. If I want to say thicker I'll say thicker. Caucasians typically have broader, thinner (though I've seen so many exceptions to this that it's not funny) lips, whereas East Asians have narrower and slightly thicker lips. I've seen many Eurasians who have broad lips, and it tend to be very obvious because one is not really used to seeing broad lips matched with East Asian-ish features.

What you consider passing for Caucasoid is actually perfectly normally East Asian and not Caucasoid at all.
Caucasian looking Japanese
Here's a thread that discusses caucasian-looking Japanese. Good luck. But you won't see Ken Watanabe's name or picture in there. You'll see Ken Hirai though and a few other Japanese who actually DON'T look East Asian.

I now notice that there are many different genetic distance maps out there. I've taken a look around and honestly, yours is just too simplistic. Amerindians in a completely separate category from N/East Asians and so distant? More:
http://anthro.palomar.edu/vary/images/DNA_tree.gif
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-p2g9UguWMp...00/evolute.gif
http://racialreality.110mb.com/greek...race_genes.gif
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:23 AM
 
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The first genetic distance map I provided is really the only one that specify the exact distance between each group really. It shows that Northeast Asians are the closest to Arctic Northeast Asians, then almost equally distant from Southeast Asians and Non-European Caucasoids, and then almost equally distant from Amerindian, Pacific Island, Australian, then European and lastly furthest from African. The other one in square distribution is also not too bad in specifying the distance.

Time to stop rambling on about how East and Southeast Asians are supposedly very close to each other on world-level.
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