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Old 02-23-2014, 07:37 PM
 
Location: singapore
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Hmmm...yeah I wonder to what degree...still, i just think it's ridiculous to call Minnan and Mandarin the same language.
To each his own opinion...
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Hmmm...yeah I wonder to what degree...still, i just think it's ridiculous to call Minnan and Mandarin the same language.
I don't care whether Minnan and Mandarin are called the same language, but mutual intelligibility "alone" should not be the rule. That is my opinion. Actually I tend to agree Min is a different language from other Chinese, because it retains many features of Old Chinese (not Middle Chinese).

Minnan dialect covers Fujian, Taiwan, Guangdong and Hainan. Many of them are mutually unintelligible.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:43 PM
 
Location: singapore
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I mean even within Minnan, there are hundreds of mutually unintelligible dialects.
Taiwan also have many Minnan/Hokkien and Hakka speakers.. Hakka seems to be a forgotten dialect..

Our Ex PM Harry Lee was famously a Hakka with Peranakan roots in his blood... I didnt know he had Peranakan roots in his blood till recently even though i have been a Singaporean for 30+ years ...
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,244,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I don't care whether Minnan and Mandarin are called the same language, but mutual intelligibility "alone" should not be the rule. That is my opinion. Actually I tend to agree Min is a different language from other Chinese, because it retains many features of Old Chinese (not Middle Chinese).

Minnan dialect covers Fujian, Taiwan, Guangdong and Hainan. Many of them are mutually unintelligible.
Actually Minnan/Hoklo mean southern Min, south of the Min river, and only to the language/dialects of southern Fujian, not other Min dialects/languages like Fuzhou, Hokchiu (northern Fujian), Teochew or Hainanese. The Hoklo technically only come from the southern part of Fujian, like Quanzhou, Xiamen (Amoy). Hokkien spoken in Taiwan ('Taiwanese'), Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia.etc is this variety.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:48 PM
 
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Actually Minnan/Hoklo mean southern Min, south of the Min river, and only to the language/dialects of southern Fujian, not other Min dialects/languages like Fuzhou, Hokchiu (northern Fujian), Teochew or Hainanese. The Hoklo technically only come from the southern part of Fujian, like Quanzhou, Xiamen (Amoy).
If you know Chinese dialectology, you should know Teochew and Hainanese are classified as Southern Min as well. Fujian has other Min dialects other than Southern Min. You can check wiki.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by singaporelady View Post
Taiwan also have many Minnan/Hokkien and Hakka speakers.. Hakka seems to be a forgotten dialect..

Our Ex PM Harry Lee was famously a Hakka with Peranakan roots in his blood... I didnt know he had Peranakan roots in his blood till recently even though i have been a Singaporean for 30+ years ...
Hakka is also a widely spread dialect in China. Even Sichuan has Hakka towns.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:54 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
If you know Chinese dialectology, you should know Teochew and Hainanese are classified as Southern Min as well. Fujian has other Min dialects other than Southern Min. You can check wiki.
Oh maybe yes, I thought they were separate...yes I know they are not intelligible, well maybe Teochew is a bit with Hokkien.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
I mean even within Minnan, there are hundreds of mutually unintelligible dialects.
Being able to speak Minnan, the mutual unintelligibility is a bit exaggerated. I am more used to Xiamen and Quanzhou accents, but Zhangzhou accents are not difficult for me to understand after being exposed to it a bit. Taiwanese is definitely intelligible to me. Teochew (Chaozhou and Shantou) is recognizable to me, being able to understand more than half of it from similarities and context. A bit like knowing standard Mandarin and listening to Sichuan or Shandong Mandarin for the first time. However, whatever limited Hainanese exposure I got, it is not intelligible to me, and should probably not be classified as a Minnan dialect.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:01 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,606,089 times
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Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Being able to speak Minnan, the mutual unintelligibility is a bit exaggerated. I am more used to Xiamen and Quanzhou accents, but Zhangzhou accents are not difficult for me to understand after being exposed to it a bit. Taiwanese is definitely intelligible to me. Teochew (Chaozhou and Shantou) is recognizable to me, being able to understand more than half of it from similarities and context. A bit like knowing standard Mandarin and listening to Sichuan or Shandong Mandarin for the first time. However, whatever limited Hainanese exposure I got, it is not intelligible to me, and should probably not be classified as a Minnan dialect.
I see your point. In fact, compared to other dialects in south China, Minnan is relatively cohesive.

There is another issue though. You may be able to understand people from Zhangzhou City, but not those from villages near Zhangzhou. In China, people in the city are often easier to understand. This applies to north China as well.
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Old 02-23-2014, 08:02 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,244,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Being able to speak Minnan, the mutual unintelligibility is a bit exaggerated. I am more used to Xiamen and Quanzhou accents, but Zhangzhou accents are not difficult for me to understand after being exposed to it a bit. Taiwanese is definitely intelligible to me. Teochew (Chaozhou and Shantou) is recognizable to me, being able to understand more than half of it from similarities and context. A bit like knowing standard Mandarin and listening to Sichuan or Shandong Mandarin for the first time. However, whatever limited Hainanese exposure I got, it is not intelligible to me, and should probably not be classified as a Minnan dialect.
I've always been curious about the Hainanese people. Even the Hainanese I know they seem to look different - maybe a bit more Tai or something. I wonder how much substrate from Li and other languages it has? Hainan also has is the Ong Be language, actually a Tai-Kadai language, yet the speakers are classified as Han Chinese.
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