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Well true Chinese characters are not phonetic characters but ideologues so it's not exactly the same. In the same way, however, a Japanese person can understand some Chinese writing because the meanings roughly correspond. A Korean or Vietnamese might also understand some words of Chinese here and there because of shared vocab. In the same way, when I read something in German I can pick up bits and pieces...many words are basically the same, like mother and muther/mutter.
Is that based on anecdotal evidence? Not sure how distant Cantonese and Wu is. In the same way though i've heard a Portuguese speaker can pick up Spanish after a few months yet they're still separate language. The fact one can pick up another fast still does not mean they are mutually intelligible.
I just pointed out that Indonesian and English both using Latin alphabet is not a good analogy.
All (educated) Chinese fully understand novels written 400 years ago without learning a "new language". It means a lot. Before Mandarin was taught in schools, all educated Chinese could read the novels too, no matter where they lived.
Many mainland Chinese study and live in Hong Kong now. I have never seen ANYONE claiming they do not understand Cantonese after living there for a while. I have never lived in any Cantonese spoken city, but I understand Cantonese TV news almost 100%, simply because I kept watching it for a while when I was young. TV news uses formal words so it is easier than colloquial conversation.
If Europeans have to separate Dutch and German, but lump German and "Swiss German" together; why should we Chinese follow their rules?
I just pointed out that Indonesian and English both using Latin alphabet is not a good analogy.
All (educated) Chinese fully understand novels written 400 years ago without learning a "new language". It means a lot. Before Mandarin was taught in schools, all educated Chinese could read the novels too, no matter where they lived.
Many mainland Chinese study and live in Hong Kong now. I have never seen ANYONE claiming they do not understand Cantonese after living there for a while. I have never lived in any Cantonese spoken city, but I understand Cantonese TV news almost 100%, simply because I kept watching it for a while when I was young. TV news uses formal words so it is easier than colloquial conversation.
If Europeans have to separate Dutch and German, but lump German and "Swiss German" together; why should we Chinese follow their rules?
Well written is separate from spoken, what's your point? Until recently most Chinese were illiterate and couldn't communicate with each other without learning the other language, that's a fact, and it shows they were clearly separate languages. Even in the Min family in Fujian languages within this family were often mutually not intelligible. Are you disputing this?
Well written is separate from spoken, what's your point? Until recently most Chinese were illiterate and couldn't communicate with each other without learning the other language, that's a fact, and it shows they were clearly separate languages. Even in the Min family in Fujian languages within this family were often mutually not intelligible. Are you disputing this?
I don't deny Chinese from different areas may not be able to understand each other. The point is, it is very quick for them to pick up a new dialect (at least to understand it). English and German are totally different.
English and German are too different compared to relationship between the Chinese languages. The Romance languages (Spanish, Portuguese, Catalan, French, Italian, Romanian) have closer relationships and are a better analogy. Another group that are as closely related and have closer written forms with more difficult intelligibility in the spoken form are the Scandinavian languages (Danish, Norwegian, Swedish).
A Mandarin speaker can generally understand several words, and even sentences, when listening to a conversation in Cantonese. It's more like the relationship of Spanish to Italian or Portuguese.
Some dialects - such as Sichuan dialect - use many different words that typically aren't in vocabulary of standard Mandarin speakers. In addition to changes in accent, the tones and grammar are often all over the place and don't follow the norm. A pain in the ass if you're a student trying to learn standard Mandarin, but not impossible. In some occasions, people have from different areas have difficulty understanding what the other is saying when speaking their local language, but not to the extent that they are completely incomprehensible. It's more than just different accents, but I wouldn't classify every region or province as having it's own dialect. Shanghainese might be the only thing I would truly consider as an official dialect on the mainland. It actually sounds like Japanese to me.
The phonology of Shanghainese is very different from Mandarin, but the mapping is still quite regular.
I mean, if you know the pronunciation of a word in Mandarin, most of the time, you can map it to it's Shanghainese pronunciation (if not completely accurate, at least something similar).
The fact that all Shanghainese people understand Mandarin help too.
I don't deny Chinese from different areas may not be able to understand each other. The point is, it is very quick for them to pick up a new dialect (at least to understand it). English and German are totally different.
Either way, they're different languages as far as experts are concerned. I'm no expert but I know they're not mutually intelligible. Dialects are like Yorkshire dialect or something, something you can still understand.
Either way, they're different languages as far as experts are concerned. I'm no expert but I know they're not mutually intelligible. Dialects are like Yorkshire dialect or something, something you can still understand.
Mutual intelligibility is not a good measure for some languages, such as Chinese.
Otherwise, some counties in Fujian may have a hundred languages, which is nonsense.
Tibetan has a bunch of mutually unintelligible dialects too, so does all major languages in the east. English just happens to be the exception, not the rule.
Mutual intelligibility is not a good measure for some languages, such as Chinese.
Otherwise, some counties in Fujian may have a hundred languages, which is nonsense.
That's why we talk of say Minnan/Hokkien, even if there are dialects within that language. Even just listening to me Hokkien sounds more like SEA languages than Mandarin.
That's why we talk of say Minnan/Hokkien, even if there are dialects within that language. Even just listening to me Hokkien sounds more like SEA languages than Mandarin.
I mean even within Minnan, there are hundreds of mutually unintelligible dialects.
I mean even within Minnan, there are hundreds of mutually unintelligible dialects.
Hmmm...yeah I wonder to what degree...still, i just think it's ridiculous to call Minnan and Mandarin the same language.
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