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Old 02-23-2014, 11:15 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,604,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xmen_WORLD View Post
All the major cities in Mainland China are dull and boring to a westerner, since they are all ruled by the CCP. These cities are all about business. And Chinese society is obviously less liberal than the west.

Tokyo, HK and Seoul are more vibrant with the trendy fashion, pop culture , entertainment & shopping.
Singapore & Dubai also very business oriented, but not bad for tourism.
Forget about Mumbai, Bangkok and other major cities of Asia.
Chengdu is far from boring... It has many bars and clubs, for example. Not to mention its food.
Chengdu is also famous for luxury shops, and only several cities in mainland China sells more luxuries than Chengdu.

Talking about liberal, Chengdu is said to have the most gays in China (not sure about the source). The divorce rate is also among the highest. Chengdu women are known to be "open".

However, it is still China. It does not make sense to compare it with western cities.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:54 AM
 
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Yeah, I don't think Xmen looked hard enough or asked many foreigners. Mainland cities are very exciting, especially the nightlife. Maybe not to the level of Tokyo or Hong Kong, but those places are hard to beat anywhere. In pretty much all US cities, everything starts shutting down after 9 or 10pm with clubs and bars closing around 2am. In cities like Chengdu, many places will stay open until 4am or later, but you'll still see people out wandering the streets or grabbing a bite to eat. I've been gone so long that I just realized you can't even buy alcohol past midnight in the US, and they're beyond strict about it. The lax laws and regulations make mainland cities a lot more chaotic, and a lot more fun.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guawazi View Post
What U.S. cities, besides NYC, do you feel are the closest equivalents of Chinese cities in terms of atmosphere. As in, stuff going on all the time, massive crowds of people, and very exciting in general. After living in China for 4 years and returning to the States, I'm still looking to move to a city that has the similar feel of living in a city like Chengdu, Shanghai, Beijing, etc. I have been targeting L.A. because it's close by, but I think unless you're living in the downtown area it feels like a typical suburban sprawl?
The reality is that cities in America are too similar to each other and too different from China to be effectively compared. So I won't just use American cities.

Although not perfect comparisons I will say

Hong Kong - New York
Shanghai - Toronto
Beijing - London (considered Berlin, but Berlin is very organized while Beijing is not)
Shenzen - Vancouver

Last edited by Camlon; 02-24-2014 at 03:54 AM..
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guawazi View Post
Yeah, I don't think Xmen looked hard enough or asked many foreigners. Mainland cities are very exciting, especially the nightlife. Maybe not to the level of Tokyo or Hong Kong, but those places are hard to beat anywhere. In pretty much all US cities, everything starts shutting down after 9 or 10pm with clubs and bars closing around 2am. In cities like Chengdu, many places will stay open until 4am or later, but you'll still see people out wandering the streets or grabbing a bite to eat. I've been gone so long that I just realized you can't even buy alcohol past midnight in the US, and they're beyond strict about it. The lax laws and regulations make mainland cities a lot more chaotic, and a lot more fun.
That is not my experience at all. Here in Tianjin everything closes around 9-10 pm, including the city centre. After 12 pm the city is deserted.

Yes, there is bar district that is open longer, but that is a tiny section of the city.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
The reality is that cities in America are too similar to each other and too different from China to be effectively compared. So I won't just use American cities.

Although not perfect comparisons I will say

Hong Kong - New York
Shanghai - Toronto
Beijing - London (considered Berlin, but Berlin is very organized while Beijing is not)
Shenzen - Vancouver
I actually have lived in both Shanghai and Toronto and know for a fact that putting these two together makes little sense.

Shanghai is about four times the size of Greater Toronto Area. It has 16 subway lines, Toronto has 2.5 lines. Shanghai is busy in many corners of the city with multiple super busy business/entertainment centres while Toronto outside the core and Yonge st is just a large suburb. In Shanghai stores close at 11pm on Sundays in Toronto it is 6pm. The liquor store closes at 5pm. In Shanghai nightlife extends well beyond 3 or 4am sometimes all night while in Toronto it stops at 2. Comparing with People Square, Dundas Square in Toronto looks tiny and cute - shanghai has at least 10 squares of these of similar sizes. Queen west is more like a secondary commercial street like Nanchang Road instead of being like Huaihuai Road if you have been to both.

It is simply not the same game. I don't know why people think Toronto is that a big deal - it is a vibrant city in North American context, but not when Shanghai is dragged into the game. Not sure you have spent enough time in Shanghai or Toronto in the past 3 years - it is more like Hong Kong and Tokyo. Toronto's vibe can't compare to that even in 10 years.

Shenzhen to Vancouver? Kidding? Vancouver is just a pretty tranquil big town in the eyes of most Chinese, hardly a midsized city.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:12 PM
 
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In the US, the suburbs are where the good open enrollment public schools are typically located so that's where ethnic Chinese and Koreans historically moved to. However, second+ gen Chinese and Korean millenials are now moving to inner cities like other educated Americans. Not for the ethnic groceries since the attachment to their heritage is not that strong, but rather for the convenience.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Unfortunately, many do move to suburbs. The trend of this generation of many Chinese and Asian emigrating to the U.S., is to go directly into the suburbs for the good schools, bigger houses, etc.

I don't necessary agree with that, as I've never lived in a suburb myself, and never had an interest in that. But, that's unfortunately where this generation of Chinese/Asian most often go when they move to the U.S.
That's not really an unfortunate thing, it is the preference for many of them. My wife has friends and family from China (wife is Chinese) who have come to visit us in the Seattle suburbs. They love it- they love how nice, clean, and orderly American suburbs are- they like the single family house concept, the idea of having a yard, an attached garage, a garden, trees, flowers, bushes, etc.- the nature that goes along with it instead of being in a crowded high rise area. Many do love that, and so it's no surprise that when a lot of them do move here, that is the type of place they go to live.
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Old 02-24-2014, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
That was the old style. They'd create a Chinatown in whatever-city.

These days though, they move to the suburbs. Looking at Los Angeles, you have suburban cities like Monterey Park, CA, a suburb of LA, which is well over 50% Chinese. Most of the suburbs around Monterey Park are also large numbers of Chinese. Looking at Los Angeles itself, not so much Chinese, although there is a Chinatown, it's not where the Chinese actually live.

Washington DC as well, most of the Chinese live up in Montgomery County, Maryland. There is a symbolic Chinatown in DC too, but it's more commercial, with the bulk of Chinese heading to MD or VA.

Meanwhile, it's the young white Americans trying to move into urban cities across the U.S. these days.
That's how it is here in Seattle, too. Seattle has a symbolic Chinatown, but the biggest concentration of Chinese is not anywhere near the urban core, or even in the city proper- it's in Bellevue and some of its surrounding suburban areas. Those are also some of the nicest, most high end areas of the metro- a lot of the Chinese here have money and want to live nicely, so they have big houses, big yards, in some of the best school districts in the state. The trend in this area is growing more and more that way, with far fewer new immigrants from China going to any of the urban areas. My wife states what many of them she knows also say- now that she lives in the traditional suburban setting here and has for several years, she has no idea how she could ever go back to living in a high rise condo/apartment. Just too many down sides to that for her- crowded, noisy, no personal outdoor space, no attached garage, dirty (especially if talking about that setting in China), etc.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:10 PM
 
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The suburbs are nice and clean and stuff, until you realise there comes at a cost - commute time. I would say it become totally not worth it if you have to spend more than an hour one way commuting. Quality of life plummets as a result of associated wasted time and stress.

Urban living is not bad as you guys make it out to be. It is convenient, easy access to everything to need. I live in a downtown condo, and am 8 minutes walk from both office and the closest grocery store, which means I can get up at 8:30 and still arrive at office on time. By 5:30pm, I am comfortably sitting at home, making dinner, working out. Can suburbanites? I walk to grocery shops two or three times a week to buy fresh vegetable, fruits and bakery, can suburbanites? If I want to have dinner with friends or watch a movie, I just go and will be there under 10 minutes, can suburbanites?

The suburbs look clean and pretty but one thing other than commute that I can't endure - it is so boring and there is nothing nearby but other people's houses. And without a car, you can't really go anywhere.

Of course people decide their own lifestyle, but it is laughable to think suburban life is idyllic and urban life is just horrible - if that's case, housing prices should be much cheaper in Manhattan and San Francisco than White Plain and Walnet Creek, shouldn't they?
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:16 PM
 
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I do think for many older Chinese immigrants the draw of the quiet, isolated suburbs is very strong because many of them grew up in large cities. For people who grew up in the suburbs (like me) their entire lives, things such as crowding, noise, and the grittiness of the city can be seen as appealing features. Definitely a few things that Chinese cities have plenty of. I think if you're older and trying to raise a family, then it makes sense that you'd want to avoid those things. As someone under 30 with no kids, the suburban setting is almost too quiet and sterile for my tastes.
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