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Old 02-26-2014, 01:15 PM
 
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OK then set aside Nobel prizes if you can't accept that they mean anything. Ignore the fact that there were probably other brilliant people who toiled with these awardees and are themselves highly accomplished in their fields. Does Singapore have anything like MIT? Stanford? Courant? They have good PISA scores in math, right? What game changing innovations were created in Singapore? Hmmm...
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
And while "many college students in the US cannot even solve quadratic equations" (your words), there are also many who can and they are enough to meet the needs of the country. MIT, CalTech end the likes get more applicants than available slots. Nobody cares about the ones who cannot solve quadratic equations.
No matter what the reason is, fact is fact. The fact is average Chinese are better at math than average Americans. Nothing more and nothing less.
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
OK then set aside Nobel prizes if you can't accept that they mean anything. Ignore the fact that there were probably other brilliant people who toiled with these awardees and are themselves highly accomplished in their fields. Does Singapore have anything like MIT? Stanford? Courant? They have good PISA scores in math, right? What game changing innovations were created in Singapore? Hmmm...
Singapore is one of the richest countries in Asia, which is a great achievement per se. And it is because of the people.
Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong all developed well.
China is catching fast, after they abandoned the Soviet system. Even Vietnam is catching fast.

You do not see such developments in other non-western regions. Do you really think it is not correlated to their PISA scores at all?
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Old 02-26-2014, 02:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
No matter what the reason is, fact is fact. The fact is average Chinese are better at math than average Americans. Nothing more and nothing less.


Such retorts make for a good retreat. “Average Chinese are better in math than average Americans. I know, China has nothing like silicon valley or MIT but average Chinese are better in math than average Americans.”

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Singapore is one of the richest countries in Asia, which is a great achievement per se. And it is because of the people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post

Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong all developed well.
China is catching fast, after they abandoned the Soviet system. Even Vietnam is catching fast.

You do not see such developments in other non-western regions. Do you really think it is not correlated to their PISA scores at all?
Singapore has ALWAYS been one of the richest territories at least in SE Asia as far back as the 19th century. The development of large commercial ships made it the region's largest and richest trading hub.

The other countries you mentioned – there are many reasons why they developed well aside from math aptitude. Economic protectionism, integration with larger economies (in the case of Korea), good timing all played important roles. You cannot isolate math skills and PISA scores and say that is the main cause of these countries’ wealth.

Last edited by Forest_Hills_Daddy; 02-26-2014 at 02:51 PM..
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
You cannot isolate math skills and PISA scores and say that is the main cause of these countries’ wealth.
I never said it is the "main cause". However, one must be able to see the correlation and the reasons underlying.

Singapore may have a good geographic location, so does Panama or Egypt. But when you compare Singapore with Panama....
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Old 02-26-2014, 04:52 PM
 
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Such retorts make for a good retreat. “Average Chinese are better in math than average Americans. I know, China has nothing like silicon valley or MIT but average Chinese are better in math than average Americans.”
I think both of you are arguing about different things. I think betta was simply trying to say that the strict Chinese education system explains why the average Chinese is better at math than the average American. If the U.S. education system was just as strict, then the average American could be just as smart at math (if not better) as the average Chinese person. Though, I think the education system is just one facet behind this observation. For example, it seems the Asian strong emphasis on education also plays a role.

Quote:
You cannot isolate math skills and PISA scores and say that is the main cause of these countries’ wealth.
True. I think it's the Asian cultural competitiveness and drive to succeed that explains the wealth in some Asian countries. The Chinese are quite business-savvy (it's no secret that they dominate the economy in southeast Asia) just like the Jews are business-savvy in the U.S. and the western world.

Also, perhaps those math skills and PISA scores have a correlation to success but are not the absolute indicator.
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Old 03-01-2014, 07:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Singapore may have a good geographic location, so does Panama or Egypt. But when you compare Singapore with Panama....
Panama's economy is actually doing very well currently. Singapore benefited from centuries of political stability and now that Panama enjoys it, the country is becoming wealthier even if its math scores lag other countries.

Similarly Egypt was the second wealthiest country on earth (and the wealthiest province in the Greek and Roman empires with Alexandria being the richest city) when it was more politically stable.

Again, there are many factors aside from general math aptitude that determine a country's wealth.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:20 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Forest_Hills_Daddy View Post
Panama's economy is actually doing very well currently. Singapore benefited from centuries of political stability and now that Panama enjoys it, the country is becoming wealthier even if its math scores lag other countries.

Similarly Egypt was the second wealthiest country on earth (and the wealthiest province in the Greek and Roman empires with Alexandria being the richest city) when it was more politically stable.

Again, there are many factors aside from general math aptitude that determine a country's wealth.
Ancient Egyptians are not Egyptians of today (mainly Arabs).

It makes no sense to compare countries of today with ancient nations either.
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Old 03-01-2014, 11:37 AM
 
Location: MO->MI->CA->TX->MA
7,021 posts, read 14,421,688 times
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Originally Posted by singaporelady View Post
Why should Singapore adopt Finland' system ?

And why Finland in particular?
Step 0: Do your research

Education in Finland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/innova...859555/?no-ist
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Old 03-01-2014, 04:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Ancient Egyptians are not Egyptians of today (mainly Arabs).

It makes no sense to compare countries of today with ancient nations either.
Well for one you are wrong about Panama. Panama's growth rate has averaged more than 8% over the past 7 years and is credited to the country's political stability.

Second, who told you it makes no sense to compare ancient nations? It just proves my point. When Egypt lost the qualities that made it a great economic empire - proximity, political stability, trade advantages - it became a poorer country. Mass proficiency in math has little to do with it.

And yes, Arabs (and their berber ancestors) populated Egypt as far back as the age of the pyramids and even moreso during the age of the Greek, Roman and Byzantine occupations. When the Arabs annexed Egypt from Byzantium, Alexandria remained the richest city in the Mediterranean even under Arab control until trade shifted to the Atlantic. So whatever you are insinuating about arabs is baseless.
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