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Old 03-23-2014, 10:59 PM
 
201 posts, read 265,311 times
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^ It's no secret that Filipinos and Indonesians (and maybe Malaysians) work as house maids in the Middle East. Do the Indonesian Muslims working there face challenges because they do not follow Islam as strictly as their Middle Eastern counterparts? In other words, how does the Middle East view their fellow Muslims in Southeast Asia? (includes southern Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia)

Also, why do Malaysians seem more strict with their Islam practices than their Indonesian neighbors?
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Old 03-23-2014, 11:50 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
^ It's no secret that Filipinos and Indonesians (and maybe Malaysians) work as house maids in the Middle East. Do the Indonesian Muslims working there face challenges because they do not follow Islam as strictly as their Middle Eastern counterparts? In other words, how does the Middle East view their fellow Muslims in Southeast Asia? (includes southern Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia)

Also, why do Malaysians seem more strict with their Islam practices than their Indonesian neighbors?
I don't think i recall Malaysians working as maid, there maybe some but im not sure.

I think Indonesians do not have any trouble having to practice strict Islam in the Middle East, because the fact that most Indonesians that went there are from the non urban lower class and most of them are from religious background. In fact majority went there because it gives them a chance for the pilgrimage.

Many Indonesians i think are looked down upon by the Middle-Easterns as much as Filipinos maid or Indian migrants, because most are doing the crappy low jobs that those Arabs do not want to do, there are large piles of cases of which maids are raped, forced into prostitution, abused, beaten, etc etc.

Malaysia's case seems more political, because there are large number of Chinese and Indian that the Malays do not want to see getting in power. So in order to do that they want to keep the Malays as pure as possible so must Islam be the symbol of power or maybe because they are more "Arabic" society. Thus Islam is heavily promoted in Malaysia and everything that they believe what Muslims should and shouldn't do is heavily enforced to it's Muslims society. While Indonesia's liberalism grew from it's nationalistic behavior of the government in order to keep ethnic groups together, avoiding ethnic clash by promoting equality, and also the fact that it had a large number of other religious minority dominating certain island or maybe because simply there are no big desire to have an Islamic state of religious population (in fact many of these radicals group were heavily suppressed before). And thus Indonesia follows the path of democracy (more of dictatorship before and it almost become a communist state too), making anything religion distanced from the government (still impossible for non-Muslims to become president however, but not because he's not allowed to make himself a candidate). Now because we have this kind of government, the population aren't suppressed from doing anything and already accepted it as a way of life in Indonesia.

Last edited by Goshio22; 03-24-2014 at 12:24 AM..
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Old 03-24-2014, 12:27 AM
 
201 posts, read 265,311 times
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Quote:
Many Indonesians i think are looked down upon by the Middle-Easterns as much as Filipinos maid or Indian migrants, because most are doing the crappy low jobs that those Arabs do not want to do, there are large piles of cases of which maids are raped, forced into prostitution, abused, beaten, etc etc.
Ah okay, so it is more of a socioeconomic issue than it is a racial issue, got it.

So from what you said about Malaysia, their degree of Islam is higher than Indonesia to develop a strong bond between the Malays and prevent the Indians and Chinese from getting too much power in Malaysia. Aren't the Austronesians in Indonesia also worried about the Indians and Chinese gaining power in their own country?

Do Malaysians look down on Indonesian's liberal approach to Islam?

Quote:
(still impossible for non-Muslims to become president however, but not because he's not allowed to make himself a candidate)
Please explain further.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:15 AM
 
42 posts, read 49,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
Ah okay, so it is more of a socioeconomic issue than it is a racial issue, got it.

So from what you said about Malaysia, their degree of Islam is higher than Indonesia to develop a strong bond between the Malays and prevent the Indians and Chinese from getting too much power in Malaysia. Aren't the Austronesians in Indonesia also worried about the Indians and Chinese gaining power in their own country?

Do Malaysians look down on Indonesian's liberal approach to Islam?


Please explain further.
I dont think there's maid from Malaysia. As far as I concern. And I dont think their degree of Islam much higher thoo. They seems alike indonesians but in the other way around. Some of Muslims in indonesians are religious and strict, and some so called muslims there look up Islam too liberalisme. Which dont represent how Muslims are.

Most billionairs and milionairs in Malaysia are Chinese. Maybe this will indicate that they're not limited to gain power. But they've to give more space to Malays as how their constitution agreed during postindependence. Malays get more rights in government which might raise questions among upcoming generations who wants justice. But I dont think the Chinese nor Indians there would mind becausetheir income are rather high plus most of them have more interest to find jobs abroads such as in Australia and Europe's state. Same as how Indonesians Chinese would do.
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Old 03-24-2014, 02:52 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kanjelman7 View Post
Ah okay, so it is more of a socioeconomic issue than it is a racial issue, got it.

So from what you said about Malaysia, their degree of Islam is higher than Indonesia to develop a strong bond between the Malays and prevent the Indians and Chinese from getting too much power in Malaysia. Aren't the Austronesians in Indonesia also worried about the Indians and Chinese gaining power in their own country?
Well maybe in Indonesia it's more of fear of the "dajjals" (non-Muslims) getting in power, note that despite it's higher level of tolerance, majority of Indonesians are still quiet religious (counting other religions too btw), and can be easily provoked. And being a nation of 250 million people there are some radicals minority too, who definitely wouldn't want to see this from happening. And because of it's democracy we are actually allowing the existence of a radical group called the "FPI" (a radical syndicate group who swept through places and damage people's property they think are unislamic, bring up stupid things as silly as a dome of a church ressembling a mosque, and also usually are paid to wreck havoc of a place) who would definitely bring up this issue of Indonesia cannot be led by person of non Muslim background, and then start causing trouble.

For the sake of stability Indonesia is just not ready to have non-Muslim president.

Quote:
Do Malaysians look down on Indonesian's liberal approach to Islam?
Definitely.

Quote:
Please explain further.
Well he basicaly wouldn't get enough support, so it's totally pointless, its almost like having a Muslim president in the Philippines. The trend in Indonesia is that Javanese tends to get into political power more than the others, because they received majority of the support from the overwhelming Javanese majority who represents 50% of the population.

Last edited by Goshio22; 03-24-2014 at 03:09 AM..
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:14 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrizFazz View Post
I dont think there's maid from Malaysia. As far as I concern. And I dont think their degree of Islam much higher thoo. They seems alike indonesians but in the other way around. Some of Muslims in indonesians are religious and strict, and some so called muslims there look up Islam too liberalisme. Which dont represent how Muslims are.
Oh hey look its video of Muslims clubbing and drinking booze:



did you say you are Australians? ohh and about the some of the strict one is true, and the liberals? they represent modern Indonesians society but majority of them are from the urban areas.

Quote:
Most billionairs and milionairs in Malaysia are Chinese. Maybe this will indicate that they're not limited to gain power. But they've to give more space to Malays as how their constitution agreed during postindependence. Malays get more rights in government which might raise questions among upcoming generations who wants justice. But I dont think the Chinese nor Indians there would mind becausetheir income are rather high plus most of them have more interest to find jobs abroads such as in Australia and Europe's state. Same as how Indonesians Chinese would do
Oh now im starting to wonder if you even have Chinese or Indian Malaysian friends, just simply because their "income" is higher, it makes it alright to treat them like 2nd 3rd class citizen.

W'ell Indonesian Chinese do not migrate because they're treated unfairly.

Last edited by Goshio22; 03-24-2014 at 03:54 AM..
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Old 03-24-2014, 03:19 AM
 
Location: Manila
1,144 posts, read 1,581,751 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Oh hey look its video of Muslims clubbing and drinking booze:



did you say you are Australians? ohh and about the some of the strict one is true, and the liberals? they represent modern Indonesians society but only in big cities really.
My family living in Indonesia can attest to seeing such things!
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Old 03-24-2014, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrconfusion87 View Post
My family living in Indonesia can attest to seeing such things!
Your family lives in Jakarta? cool!

Hahaha there's even a saying of how cool Jakartans can party (and loads of illegal stuff :P) and i wonder why there is a guy trying to spam info of Indonesians being on the same league with Malaysians when it comes to religiousity level. In Malaysia the Muslims can't do this, most of the Malaysian Muslims that actually party are from Sabah/Sarawak (North Borneo and most of the drinking occurs in bars and very few clubs there) because its not as restricted there, but in West Malaysia? not as much, and the girls hardly dressed up to the nine if they're Malays.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:48 AM
 
Location: VA
1,197 posts, read 1,603,832 times
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I've visited Indonesia a few times along with my family, and having been to places like Afghanistan (courtesy of Uncle Sam) or even the UAE for that matter; I have to say that Indonesia is quite liberal by Islamic standards. I would almost compare it to Turkey....

Hell my parents are Chinese AND Christian, a double whammy in Indonesian society and while they tell me there was quite a bit of discrimination back then; they still managed to live a comfortable life working for Chinese owned banks. Albeit they spent their lives before moving to the US in the heavily urbanized Jakarta region, I personally never ventured into rural Indonesa so I could not say how much more conservative the people there are.
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Old 03-24-2014, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,158 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudcommando View Post
I've visited Indonesia a few times along with my family, and having been to places like Afghanistan (courtesy of Uncle Sam) or even the UAE for that matter; I have to say that Indonesia is quite liberal by Islamic standards. I would almost compare it to Turkey....

Hell my parents are Chinese AND Christian, a double whammy in Indonesian society and while they tell me there was quite a bit of discrimination back then; they still managed to live a comfortable life working for Chinese owned banks. Albeit they spent their lives before moving to the US in the heavily urbanized Jakarta region, I personally never ventured into rural Indonesa so I could not say how much more conservative the people there are.
Yes there was major discrimination, that has finally calmed down since 1998... where thousands of Chinese fled the country (but some of them returned), in Suharto era Chinese (also Indo-Dutch) were heavily surpressed, unfortunately and sadly.. but it has changed a lot since then, today Chinese roams around the city of Jakarta without having to fear discrimination. Even Turkey has its dark history.

The rural area is pretty conservative, but it always have its "dark side", i never find it impossible to get a booze anywhere in the rural areas.
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