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Old 02-10-2016, 02:51 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,561 posts, read 70,482,002 times
Reputation: 76542

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
Don't dodge my questions. I already said there were 5 million Tibetans in all of China in 2000, and there were much fewer in the 1950s. How come over a million were killed or jailed?
BTW, Tibetan population doubled from 1950s to now.
You missed the point of that post. Tibet suffered huge population losses during and after the 50's. Many monks were jailed, and quite a few died in jail, as reactionary "enemies of the people", as did some landowners as well. People who participated in the uprising in 1959, and later protests, were killed or jailed. The Tibetan Government-in-Exile originally published a statement that Tibet had had 8 million people before China took over, and that at some point in the 60's, the population was down to 6 million. Of course, some of those had fled to India, but many had died due to Chinese policies.

I think the Chinese missed a big opportunity to prove to the world that they were rescuing people from an oppressive regime and a theocracy. Because of their heavy-handed tactics, they turned out to be equally as guilty of human rights violations as the Tibetan government and the elite. Even now, there is so much more that they could be doing to improve Tibetans' lives that is not being done; building rural schools, so that children, and especially girls, would have an alternative to education in the monasteries. Too many rural girls have no future except as herders, nuns, or prostitutes. Tibetan women need career opportunities. This is how the Soviet regime in Russia excelled, and gained the support of women in Central Asian societies: they offered not only basic education, but higher education and good jobs. China has not done the same in Xinjiang or Tibet.
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Old 02-10-2016, 03:23 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,813,638 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHi View Post
If it's such a key strategy, why doesn't Iraq fight Turkey for the region? The Tigris and Euphrates flow through Iraq, as well. Your theory doesn't hold water, so to speak.
Because Turkey is part of NATO and Iraq never had the military capability to credibly occupy that region?
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Old 02-10-2016, 03:26 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 734,780 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You missed the point of that post. Tibet suffered huge population losses during and after the 50's. Many monks were jailed, and quite a few died in jail, as reactionary "enemies of the people", as did some landowners as well. People who participated in the uprising in 1959, and later protests, were killed or jailed. The Tibetan Government-in-Exile originally published a statement that Tibet had had 8 million people before China took over, and that at some point in the 60's, the population was down to 6 million. Of course, some of those had fled to India, but many had died due to Chinese policies.

I think the Chinese missed a big opportunity to prove to the world that they were rescuing people from an oppressive regime and a theocracy. Because of their heavy-handed tactics, they turned out to be equally as guilty of human rights violations as the Tibetan government and the elite. Even now, there is so much more that they could be doing to improve Tibetans' lives that is not being done; building rural schools, so that children, and especially girls, would have an alternative to education in the monasteries. Too many rural girls have no future except as herders, nuns, or prostitutes. Tibetan women need career opportunities. This is how the Soviet regime in Russia excelled, and gained the support of women in Central Asian societies: they offered not only basic education, but higher education and good jobs. China has not done the same in Xinjiang or Tibet.
Why do you guys have to keep lying? Tibet had 8 million people? That must have included Han Chinese in Qinghai province. Even now there are only less than 6 million Tibetans in all of China, and Tibetan population grows fast.

Tibet was a slavery, serfdom society before the communist revolution. Maybe the monks were happy but the serfs were just animals with zero human rights. Why can't you guys listen to children of the serfs? Some of them are communist officials now.

The "communists" told the serfs that humans are born equal and taught them science and technology. When you blame China government for not giving Tibetan women career opportunities, how do you know it is not their local culture that prevents it? Actually China government always encourages people in Xinjiang and Tibet to work in other parts of China.

China does NOT want Tibet to fail, for any reason. It is so obvious. Yes China wants to control Tibet, but other than that China wants all good things for Tibet and Tibetans.
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Old 02-11-2016, 10:31 AM
 
4,680 posts, read 3,610,867 times
Reputation: 7381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
You missed the point of that post. Tibet suffered huge population losses during and after the 50's. Many monks were jailed, and quite a few died in jail, as reactionary "enemies of the people", as did some landowners as well. People who participated in the uprising in 1959, and later protests, were killed or jailed. The Tibetan Government-in-Exile originally published a statement that Tibet had had 8 million people before China took over, and that at some point in the 60's, the population was down to 6 million. Of course, some of those had fled to India, but many had died due to Chinese policies.

I think the Chinese missed a big opportunity to prove to the world that they were rescuing people from an oppressive regime and a theocracy. Because of their heavy-handed tactics, they turned out to be equally as guilty of human rights violations as the Tibetan government and the elite. Even now, there is so much more that they could be doing to improve Tibetans' lives that is not being done; building rural schools, so that children, and especially girls, would have an alternative to education in the monasteries. Too many rural girls have no future except as herders, nuns, or prostitutes. Tibetan women need career opportunities. This is how the Soviet regime in Russia excelled, and gained the support of women in Central Asian societies: they offered not only basic education, but higher education and good jobs. China has not done the same in Xinjiang or Tibet.
Who is China trying to impress? You? The Chinese are beholden to themselves, no one else. You might not like what they do, but they do whatever they think it's right. Like I don't like the way they butcher dogs on the street, but what can I do aside from whining about it, like you?

Jackson removed Indians left and right, and basically drove the native tribes into extinction. What he trying to impress someone?
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Old 02-11-2016, 12:02 PM
 
964 posts, read 702,871 times
Reputation: 1269
Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
Don't dodge my questions. I already said there were 5 million Tibetans in all of China in 2000, and there were much fewer in the 1950s. How come over a million were killed or jailed?
BTW, Tibetan population doubled from 1950s to now.
I'm not dodging your questions. I'm pointing to the crux of the issue. There's an enormous difference between limiting your count of Tibetans to the autonomous region, vs. including Qinghai and part of Sichuan, which if included in the definition of "Tibet", would double the population. And a more or less contemporary census count doesn't reveal the reality that a comparison would of the population at 1950 to the population in, say, 1970 after the chaos of the Great Leap Forward and into the Cultural Revolution. You would discover a loss of ethnic Tibetans of between 1 and 2 million. Stating how many there are now or how many there were in 2000 is meaningless. It doesn't address the question at all.

This is how your government hides the truth--by picking irrelevant facts to try to base an argument on.
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Old 02-11-2016, 03:42 PM
 
Location: State of Transition
78,561 posts, read 70,482,002 times
Reputation: 76542
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Who is China trying to impress? You? The Chinese are beholden to themselves, no one else. You might not like what they do, but they do whatever they think it's right. Like I don't like the way they butcher dogs on the street, but what can I do aside from whining about it, like you?

Jackson removed Indians left and right, and basically drove the native tribes into extinction. What he trying to impress someone?
They try pretty hard to convince the world that they were "liberators" in Tibet, not oppressors, yueng-ling's posts being a case in point. Upholding their image as liberators would have worked a lot better if they hadn't destroyed most monasteries, jailed and tortured monks, jailed ordinary citizens just for having a photo of the Dalai Lama in the home, and so on, that's all I'm saying. Their tactics were too heavy-handed, so they lost credibility as liberators.
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Old 02-11-2016, 05:35 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,813,638 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
They try pretty hard to convince the world that they were "liberators" in Tibet, not oppressors, yueng-ling's posts being a case in point. Upholding their image as liberators would have worked a lot better if they hadn't destroyed most monasteries, jailed and tortured monks, jailed ordinary citizens just for having a photo of the Dalai Lama in the home, and so on, that's all I'm saying. Their tactics were too heavy-handed, so they lost credibility as liberators.
What exactly does China get in return from releasing Tibetans and giving them an independent country? I never hear a single response to this question.
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Old 02-11-2016, 07:43 PM
 
919 posts, read 602,484 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
What exactly does China get in return from releasing Tibetans and giving them an independent country? I never hear a single response to this question.
I wonder what kind of benefit UK got in return from the independence of USA, for example?

Odd question for me
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:03 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 734,780 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHi View Post
I'm not dodging your questions. I'm pointing to the crux of the issue. There's an enormous difference between limiting your count of Tibetans to the autonomous region, vs. including Qinghai and part of Sichuan, which if included in the definition of "Tibet", would double the population. And a more or less contemporary census count doesn't reveal the reality that a comparison would of the population at 1950 to the population in, say, 1970 after the chaos of the Great Leap Forward and into the Cultural Revolution. You would discover a loss of ethnic Tibetans of between 1 and 2 million. Stating how many there are now or how many there were in 2000 is meaningless. It doesn't address the question at all.

This is how your government hides the truth--by picking irrelevant facts to try to base an argument on.
When i said all of China, i already included Qinghai, Sichuan etc.
You assume exiled Tibetans are not biased and China hid population figures. Pretty lame excuse.
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Old 02-11-2016, 08:04 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 734,780 times
Reputation: 508
Some Tibetans welcome the communist revolution too. Why nobody mentioned them?
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