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View Poll Results: If Beijing Was Its Own Country, Would You Consider It A First World Country ?
YES 8 21.05%
NO 30 78.95%
Voters: 38. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-20-2015, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
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Old 03-20-2015, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
slave is an extreme word. These people work long hours to make money and they can quit their job any minute they want. It is China, but people still have the total freedom to quit their job.

They work longer hours because they have to and want to. How else do you think China grows by 10% a year for decades? 30 years ago, a bicycle was considered an important asset, and most families didn't have AC or refrigerators. Today, millions of personal cars run on the streets. Do you think they achieved this by working an easy 7 hour shift plus 15 vacation days and a year of maternity leave?

In order to get richer and have a better life, they sacrifice leisure, the entire generation, and there is nothing to laugh at. The Greeks have an easy non-slave life and look at where they got.
Yes, and look at China's horrific environmental price. It will take decades to clean all the mess up, and that's still not a sure thing. More than 40% of China's water source is polluted. Why are all the wealthy people leaving China the first chance they get? The application to the US, Canada and other developed countries for investor green cards are like literal mountains....it's embarrassing that China cannot keep its "best and brightest" at home.
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Old 03-20-2015, 05:24 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Yes, and look at China's horrific environmental price. It will take decades to clean all the mess up, and that's still not a sure thing. More than 40% of China's water source is polluted. Why are all the wealthy people leaving China the first chance they get? The application to the US, Canada and other developed countries for investor green cards are like literal mountains....it's embarrassing that China cannot keep its "best and brightest" at home.
They leave not mainly because of pollution.
Most if not all rich men in China have something to hide (not always their fault). If the government decides to punish them for whatever reason, they are doomed.

My uncle wants to move to the US too. He owns a business to sell medical products. Sometimes government officials bring things (confiscated drugs etc.) to him and ask him "help them sell"...Businessmen have no power and cannot always play by rules. He could lose everything in one night, which has already happened to many people.
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Old 03-20-2015, 05:49 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
They leave not mainly because of pollution.
Most if not all rich men in China have something to hide (not always their fault). If the government decides to punish them for whatever reason, they are doomed.

My uncle wants to move to the US too. He owns a business to sell medical products. Sometimes government officials bring things (confiscated drugs etc.) to him and ask him "help them sell"...Businessmen have no power and cannot always play by rules. He could lose everything in one night, which has already happened to many people.
And this is supposed to be a "first world" major economy? It's medieval! Pollution, oppression, corruption, selfish grabbing by private businessmen...all this makes up the dirty soup of China. How can it possibly be a first world country by any stretch of the imagination? I still remember that video a few years back when a little girl was hit by a truck several times, lying/dying on the side of a busy street, and nobody ever cared or came to help her....because everyone was really busy working 14 hrs days for themselves. Who cares about a little girl dying on the street...none of their business. So, no matter how many SUVs, or cars or tiangong space labs etc, China will always be a third world nation because its people think like third world.

Many Chinese still think elephant tusks naturally falls out of the elephants, and so using ivory is not harmful to the elephants. Imagine the stupidity and ignorance.
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:46 PM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,601,290 times
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Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
And this is supposed to be a "first world" major economy? It's medieval! Pollution, oppression, corruption, selfish grabbing by private businessmen...all this makes up the dirty soup of China. How can it possibly be a first world country by any stretch of the imagination? I still remember that video a few years back when a little girl was hit by a truck several times, lying/dying on the side of a busy street, and nobody ever cared or came to help her....because everyone was really busy working 14 hrs days for themselves. Who cares about a little girl dying on the street...none of their business. So, no matter how many SUVs, or cars or tiangong space labs etc, China will always be a third world nation because its people think like third world.

Many Chinese still think elephant tusks naturally falls out of the elephants, and so using ivory is not harmful to the elephants. Imagine the stupidity and ignorance.
The legal system of China is far from good, which is not news.
But most people still believe it is becoming better. Some lost hope.
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Old 03-20-2015, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Singapore
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Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Beijing looks rich and polished at the expense of China. In fact, Beijing wouldn't be able to survive alone if "it were its own country" - it feeds on the provinces. So this question is irrelevant because if Beijing chooses to be independent, hypothetically, its citizens will probably starve and there will be no money from grab from elsewhere. Unlike Shanghai area, Beijing is surrounded by poverty and is in nowhere self-sustainable.

About 10 years ago, I read somewhere that typical Shanghainese living standard was similar to Portugal. I believe it is relatively accurate. Today, Shanghai and nearby Yangzte river delta areas probably is as wealthy as Spain, or maybe slightly behind.
the locals in Shanghai enjoy the same quality of living like some developed nations. But the huge amount of immigrant from rural or poor parts of china migrate to Shanghai, dilute the GDP. Make Shanghai GDP per capita look little.
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Old 03-21-2015, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Singapore
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Originally Posted by samngchaoyu View Post

this is gdp per capita of different areas in China. some parts of china already surpass taiwan. within 10-15 years eastern coast of china has the opportunity to have the standard of living like Taiwan. there is areas in china still stuck behind....gdp per capital below 2000. poorer than a lot of countries in Africa. this is the huge disparity in China.
I have to agree with this; besides, just what does a "first-world" country exactly means???

For example, by all means, Brisbane is a first world city but is it more of a first world city compared to Singapore? on what terms? Art? Culture? economy?

Take Seoul for example, the incomes earned by South koreans in Seoul are a lot lower than what most Americans earn, yet, Seoul, and most of South Korea, have an internet speed that is probably 50 times faster than what is in the US but nobody by any definition considers the US a 3rd-world country, (except for Detroit, and the immediate aftermath of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina).

So what does a first-world country in a city context actually means?
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Old 03-21-2015, 04:16 AM
 
4,683 posts, read 3,610,867 times
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Originally Posted by tigerbalm1985 View Post
I have to agree with this; besides, just what does a "first-world" country exactly means???

For example, by all means, Brisbane is a first world city but is it more of a first world city compared to Singapore? on what terms? Art? Culture? economy?

Take Seoul for example, the incomes earned by South koreans in Seoul are a lot lower than what most Americans earn, yet, Seoul, and most of South Korea, have an internet speed that is probably 50 times faster than what is in the US but nobody by any definition considers the US a 3rd-world country, (except for Detroit, and the immediate aftermath of New Orleans after Hurricane Katrina).

So what does a first-world country in a city context actually means?
There are many pockets and even whole cities and neighborhoods in the US that's consider to be "third world". It's just that most Americans are too stupid and arrogant to recognize them as such. Plenty of places in the US should, or is, considered "third world". I am American and I know exactly what the US is like.

For China, huge swath of rural areas, inland provinces, and even big pockets of urban areas are materially third world. And, to a large extent, the still insular, ignorant and painfully medieval outlook of the general Chinese population, which gives the Chinese the unflattering moniker of "ugly chinaman", is still very prevalent. This makes China on the whole a third world nation. It makes Beijing city a third world capital with some spiffy modern stuff serving a population who is quite ok with taking a dump right on the streets (I've witnessed this often when I was there). China will need another 50 years to reach modernity....maybe when I am in my 80's.

Of course, all bets are off if China descends into civil chaos and war.
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Old 03-21-2015, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Singapore
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Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
There are many pockets and even whole cities and neighborhoods in the US that's consider to be "third world". It's just that most Americans are too stupid and arrogant to recognize them as such. Plenty of places in the US should, or is, considered "third world". I am American and I know exactly what the US is like.

For China, huge swath of rural areas, inland provinces, and even big pockets of urban areas are materially third world. And, to a large extent, the still insular, ignorant and painfully medieval outlook of the general Chinese population, which gives the Chinese the unflattering moniker of "ugly chinaman", is still very prevalent. This makes China on the whole a third world nation. It makes Beijing city a third world capital with some spiffy modern stuff serving a population who is quite ok with taking a dump right on the streets (I've witnessed this often when I was there). China will need another 50 years to reach modernity....maybe when I am in my 80's.

Of course, all bets are off if China descends into civil chaos and war.
China on a whole has a high development index. Even though, China does not have very high HDI like developed countries, however if you consider China as a third world country, you are being ignorant.
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Old 03-21-2015, 05:08 AM
 
4,683 posts, read 3,610,867 times
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Originally Posted by samngchaoyu View Post
China on a whole has a high development index. Even though, China does not have very high HDI like developed countries, however if you consider China as a third world country, you are being ignorant.
If you read my note carefully, you will know that I do acknowledge that there are elements of China that is "first world." But I also emphasized that the real reason is the Chinese people's attitude and thinking, not the physical construction (like highways, airports) or HDI index ranking, that make China a third world country. Do you really think a first world people would allow their kids to pee on the main streets of a metropolis?
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