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Old 06-14-2014, 05:34 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
How distinctive are Chinese Indonesians? I mean it's common for their to intermarry with locals, right? And I know most speak Indonesian not any Chinese language. Though in contrast to Chinese Malaysians most are Christian not Buddhist.etc. Do most just see themselves as Indonesian, or 'Indonesian Chinese'?
Whether they would identify themself as Chinese Indonesians or just plainly Indonesian varies, but mostly they wouldn't mention they're Chinese unless you ask them. Chinese Indonesians hardly practice Chinese culture and tend to be more familiar with local custom when they're Christians but minority of them who have Buddhist parents would occasionally follow their parents to the temples for some ceremony. Most who converted to Christianity sees Chinese practices that is associated with Buddhism as blasphemy and therefore refuses to accept to practice it, some of these Christians Chinese even buried their dead Buddhist parents in Christians cemetery.

Intermarriage is quiet common, though most of these occurs through Christianity, some i know married different religion such as to Buddhist or Muslims and either sides will then convert to either religion each sides belongs to (though reconversion to Buddhism is rare), or simply maintained their own religion and let their children follows what they believed in. In Bali however the husband expect their spouse to convert to Hinduism. But most Chinese i know prefer having Chinese spouses with quiet a number who didn't care about it.

 
Old 06-14-2014, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Whether they would identify themself as Chinese Indonesians or just plainly Indonesian varies, but mostly they wouldn't mention they're Chinese unless you ask them. Chinese Indonesians hardly practice Chinese culture and tend to be more familiar with local custom when they're Christians but minority of them who have Buddhist parents would occasionally follow their parents to the temples for some ceremony. Most who converted to Christianity sees Chinese practices that is associated with Buddhism as blasphemy and therefore refuses to accept to practice it, some of these Christians Chinese even buried their dead Buddhist parents in Christians cemetery.

Intermarriage is quiet common, though most of these occurs through Christianity, some i know married different religion such as to Buddhist or Muslims and either sides will then convert to either religion each sides belongs to (though reconversion to Buddhism is rare), or simply maintained their own religion and let their children follows what they believed in. In Bali however the husband expect their spouse to convert to Hinduism. But most Chinese i know prefer having Chinese spouses with quiet a number who didn't care about it.
I wonder why so few Chinese Indonesians are Muslim, when they are culturally seemingly more integrated than those in Malaysia. I've heard that there are actually a lot of Peranakans in Indonesia. Sadly, Peranakan like my grandmother (who I sadly never met) are a dying breed it seems...

How many Javanese are Christian? What % of people in say Jakarta would you estimate to have some Chinese ancestry?

Would you say most Christians in Indonesia are pretty evangelical/protestant?

A lot of Indonesians here look sort of Chinese or are at least part Chinese.
 
Old 06-14-2014, 06:36 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,146,946 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I wonder why so few Chinese Indonesians are Muslim, when they are culturally seemingly more integrated than those in Malaysia. I've heard that there are actually a lot of Peranakans in Indonesia. Sadly, Peranakan like my grandmother (who I sadly never met) are a dying breed it seems...

How many Javanese are Christian? What % of people in say Jakarta would you estimate to have some Chinese ancestry?

Would you say most Christians in Indonesia are pretty evangelical/protestant?

A lot of Indonesians here look sort of Chinese or are at least part Chinese.
There is community of chinese in calcutta india, according to wikipedia they're christians rather than hindu and didnt practice their chinese culture that much either. Maybe its more on culture since the chinese wasnt that integrated during colonial times and was on the 2nd class if the dutch caste system. They were largely chinese practioneer until suharto decided to ban chinese culture, so naturally they wouldnt want to be muslims. Majority of them went to private christians school which leads to mass conversion as their level education grew.

The number of javanese christians is probably at around 5% i would estimatee..

Hmm according to cencus 6% of the city`s population are chinese, but then some chinese dont identify themself as chinese on the cencus or if they're mixed ancestry. So to estimate the entire city itself is very hard, maybe 10%?

Christians in indonesia is largely protestant, but catholictism is prominent in certain area like central java, nusa tenggara islands. In manado which overwhelmingly are protestant also have large number of catholics, catholictism was surpresed before and only grew in later part of the dutch east indies. There re very big evangelical christians indeed but also large number of traditional protestant based on dutch reformed and lutheran practices.
 
Old 06-14-2014, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
There is community of chinese in calcutta india, according to wikipedia they're christians rather than hindu and didnt practice their chinese culture that much either. Maybe its more on culture since the chinese wasnt that integrated during colonial times and was on the 2nd class if the dutch caste system. They were largely chinese practioneer until suharto decided to ban chinese culture, so naturally they wouldnt want to be muslims. Majority of them went to private christians school which leads to mass conversion as their level education grew.

The number of javanese christians is probably at around 5% i would estimatee..

Hmm according to cencus 6% of the city`s population are chinese, but then some chinese dont identify themself as chinese on the cencus or if they're mixed ancestry. So to estimate the entire city itself is very hard, maybe 10%?

Christians in indonesia is largely protestant, but catholictism is prominent in certain area like central java, nusa tenggara islands. In manado which overwhelmingly are protestant also have large number of catholics, catholictism was surpresed before and only grew in later part of the dutch east indies. There re very big evangelical christians indeed but also large number of traditional protestant based on dutch reformed and lutheran practices.

Interesting. I thought most were Buddhist/Taoist...

Yes, the Chinese were often seen as between the locals and Europeans, as they were in Malaysia.

That's not very high...KL is about 42% Chinese, so I guess there's a stronger Chinese feel in West Malaysia than Java. Kuching, Miri, KK are also pretty Chinese.

I guess most of the British colonies, except India (for some odd reason), are more Protestant than Catholic. Singapore is 10% Protestant and 8% Catholic. I notice some Indonesian churches here.

BTW are you part or full Chinese Indonesian and/or Christian yourself?
 
Old 06-14-2014, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Peranakan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

A bit of a shame the Peranakan culture is dying out...
 
Old 06-14-2014, 08:10 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Interesting. I thought most were Buddhist/Taoist...

Yes, the Chinese were often seen as between the locals and Europeans, as they were in Malaysia.

That's not very high...KL is about 42% Chinese, so I guess there's a stronger Chinese feel in West Malaysia than Java. Kuching, Miri, KK are also pretty Chinese.

I guess most of the British colonies, except India (for some odd reason), are more Protestant than Catholic. Singapore is 10% Protestant and 8% Catholic. I notice some Indonesian churches here.

BTW are you part or full Chinese Indonesian and/or Christian yourself?
Well it used to be higher certainly back in the colonial times, but it only reached a population of 500k during Dutch rule but gradually as the population exploded from the 500k 1940s to nearly 10 million in 2010, even the original Betawi are no longer majority of the population today being 15% of the total population. Chinese population is large indeed and are very appealing in major cities, but they are definitely not majority in the country, so its not much of a surprise if Indonesia's situation is completely different with Malaysia. There are significant Chinese population in the historical colonial commercial center in Jakarta, Semarang, Surabaya, Bandung and Medan and also other minor commercial centers but not on the countrysides. But they did really become very large in Pontianak and Singkawang in East Borneo, since those area tend to be less populated and require more immigrants that can be more easily controlled by the Dutch. Singkawang retained quiet significant of its ex colonial with Chinese hybrid charm, Pontianak lost it all but still significantly Chinese, they speak teochuw and hakka dialect and more Buddhist. Chinese are also significant in parts of Sumatra such as Batam in Riau islands, Medan and Banda islands, they also speak Mandarin in Batam (most likely Singapore influence) and more Buddhist too. Banda island, like Singkawang retained the same characteristic. Tangerang Cina Benteng is really the last of Chinese peranakan bastion in Java, they're obviously Chinese-Javanese breed (look very Javanese too) but they identify themself as Chinese and most are Taoist, but they speak Javanese.

Those places really are the only exceptions, most other provinces usually have Christians and very Indonesianized Chinese. (atleast from my observation after meeting quiet lots of them)

It is not strange either for ex protestant colonies to be more protestant oriented rather than Catholics, Vietnam is mainly Catholics too in terms of Christians population simply because the French colonized them.

Last edited by Goshio22; 06-14-2014 at 08:35 AM..
 
Old 06-14-2014, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Well it used to be higher certainly back in the colonial times, but it only reached a population of 500k during Dutch rule but gradually as the population exploded from the 500k 1940s to nearly 10 million in 2010, even the original Betawi are no longer majority of the population today being 15% of the total population. Chinese population is large indeed and are very appealing in major cities, but they are definitely not majority in the country, so its not much of a surprise if Indonesia's situation is completely different with Malaysia. There are significant Chinese population in the historical colonial commercial center in Jakarta, Semarang, Surabaya, Bandung and Medan and also other minor commercial centers but not on the countrysides. But they did really become very large in Pontianak and Singkawang in East Borneo, since those area tend to be less populated and require more immigrants that can be more easily controlled by the Dutch. Singkawang retained quiet significant of its ex colonial with Chinese hybrid charm, Pontianak lost it all but still significantly Chinese, they speak teochuw and hakka dialect and more Buddhist. Chinese are also significant in parts of Sumatra such as Batam in Riau islands, Medan and Banda islands, they also speak Mandarin in Batam (most likely Singapore influence) and more Buddhist too. Banda island, like Singkawang retained the same characteristic. Tangerang Cina Benteng is really the last of Chinese peranakan bastion in Java, they're Chinese and Taoist, but they speak Javanese.

Those places really are the only exceptions, most other provinces usually have Christians and very Indonesianized Chinese. (atleast from my observation after meeting quiet lots of them)

It is not strange either for ex protestant colonies to be more protestant oriented rather than Catholics, Vietnam is mainly Catholics too in terms of Christians population simply because the French colonized them.
Would you say the Chinese in Medan are less integrated, more like those in Malaysia?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfe3v2_xVhM

The guy is kind of campy and probably one of those older blokes who goes after the 'rice queens' lol jk.

Yes, Chinese have a long history in the 'Dutch East Indies.'

Some towns in Vietnam seem majority Catholic. Even in Sri Lanka some towns are 80-90% Catholic.
 
Old 06-14-2014, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,146,946 times
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^i think i've discussed bout it with u before, yes they're less integrted compared to the others, but doesnt mean that others from different cities cant be "racist" too. Some chinese cant get over the 1998 event and they're not to blame. In aceh chinese still become a blacksheep somehow too, atleast not in the rest of the country and locals dont shout at the chinese calling them "cina", we even have the term tionghoa because the word "cina" have become quiet offensive during those days in the 80-90s.

Sri lanka gets its catholictism from portuguese, then it was under the dutch, but ever since the colonized batavia they ignore most of their other colony and focused on batavia and amboina only. Resulting mass conversion of catholic population in indonesia but not others in conquered portuguese territory in india or sri lanka.
 
Old 06-14-2014, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,252,153 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
^i think i've discussed bout it with u before, yes they're less integrted compared to the others, but doesnt mean that others from different cities cant be "racist" too. Some chinese cant get over the 1998 event and they're not to blame. In aceh chinese still become a blacksheep somehow too, atleast not in the rest of the country and locals dont shout at the chinese calling them "cina", we even have the term tionghoa because the word "cina" have become quiet offensive during those days in the 80-90s.

Sri lanka gets its catholictism from portuguese, then it was under the dutch, but ever since the colonized batavia they ignore most of their other colony and focused on batavia and amboina only. Resulting mass conversion of catholic population in indonesia but not others in conquered portuguese territory in india or sri lanka.
Some of the people in the video looked 'mixed', although Austronesians and S.Chinese don't look all that different.

Oh yeah, the riots and stuff? Don't know much about it but I think I've heard about it. I guess there was resentment that the Chinese were so rich/controlling so much wealth. The 'Jews of Asia'.

Yes, it seemed the Dutch imprint was very minimal. The British East Indian company soon took over Ceylon. Some of the remnants of that period, like the church at Galle, can still be seen. Taiwan/Formosa also has some Dutch buildings/forts.

Does Indonesia have anything comparable to George Town, Penang, or even Macau in terms of colonial architecture?
 
Old 06-14-2014, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,126,284 times
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Is this a thread about how we feel about the brief personalities our neighbors??
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