U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:24 AM
 
45 posts, read 88,491 times
Reputation: 18

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ezio_Auditore View Post
The core of the language like numeral system of Khmer and Vietnamese are quite similar, but very very different from Han-Chinese and Tai-Kadai(Lao/Thai/Dai/Zhuang).

Obviously, 1-5 of Vietnamese and Khmer are very similar to each other.
Tai-Kradai borrowed the numeral system of Chinese much in the same way that the Japanese language did. Chinese and Japanese languages are not even remotely connected despite the genetics similarities between Chinese and Japanese people.

 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,238,353 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aromesaveur View Post
Tai-Kradai borrowed the numeral system of Chinese much in the same way that the Japanese language did. Chinese and Japanese languages are not even remotely connected despite the genetics similarities between Chinese and Japanese people.
Thai language more Chinese than Vietnamese - Asian Language - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum
 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,145,319 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Siamese/Thai culture seemed to be influenced mostly by Khmer and Burmese, Vietnamese by Chinese. Champa/Funan were culturally similar to Khmer but also had things in common with the Srivijaya kingdom of Malaya.
The srivijayan kingdom extended as far as the thai and khmer land, sumatra was also a major buddhist religional center before thailand or cambodia become fully buddhist.
 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:38 AM
 
45 posts, read 88,491 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by eugene_allen View Post
Dear Enzio,

lol

I can't help but notice that you seem extremely obsessed with Vietnamese, every post you made you tried to compare with them, while I never paid attention to who they are, I careless about it. I speak on the behalf of Austronesians and AustroAsiatics in general. I just call you out for your obsession with skin tone But I can understand why you are obsessed with comparing to Vietnamese, simply because they are usually seen as the lighter-skinned (if not the most) southeast asians, so you have to dig who they were a few thousands ago. Well, most people don't see who they were, they only see who they are now

Back to the topic, Tai-Kadai speakers do not have connection with AustroAsiatic and Mon-khmer people? lol . They share the same halogroup, idiot! Tai-Kadai speakers were assimilated AustroAsiatics. How do you know the original Khmer people were dark before they were mixed with Indians in the past 4000 years?
His obsession with 'pure' Tai and Vietnamese are intimately connected as they are more-or-less the same thing. He seems to be jealous of the fact that Vietnamese are in reality more genetically related to 'pure' Tai that he so desperately want his Thai-Siamese to be. The only way he can reconcile his cognitive dissonance is to use flimsy linguistic arguments to downplay the relationship between Dai and Vietnamese.

Think about it. He never insults Vietnamese as they exist in modern times outright. He only insults what he thinks they may have been. He can never truly bear ill-will against actual modern Vietnamese because they are so close to what he wants to be.
 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:45 AM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aromesaveur View Post
You say it is impossible for a minority people to shift a language? How about the most popular and well known language of them all: English. Did you know that that the genetic impact of Anglo-Saxons on the British Isles was minimal but that their language replaced all of the native language including Brittonic-Celtic, Irish, Welsh, and Scottish Gaelic? Not only that but English has penetrated throughout the world and will eventually become the world's primary language if current globalization rates continue. Think about it, the language of a small island country in Northwest Europe of about 50 million has influenced 775 million people worldwide, and will continue for the foreseeable future until it becomes the dominant global language.

In all likelihood, Tai tribes probably invaded parts of Southeast Asia, became the dominant economic force and/or establish kingdoms leading to the language shift we see today as commoners learned the language of their conquerors. I can draw many parallels between Thai-Siamese and modern day mestizo Mexicans in which a foreign people invaded, conquered, and mated their women leading to a population which has mixed native origins but speak the language of their conquerors. Only in the Thai-Siamese case, native Mon-Khmer ancestry make up the majority while the reverse is true of Mexicans (on average).

Funny, how you insist on modern Vietnamese being a fusion of natives and Chinese and yet the language never shifted towards a Sinitic one. It really must speak volumes on the relative strength of the native civilizations especially when compared to the pre-Taiified Siamese who essentially allowed poor immigrants fleeing Yunnan to dominate their economy and nation. The same immigrants who in Vietnam are regarded as poor uneducated mountain minorities. We shouldn't be surprised at this fact because Siam/Thailand is now currently dominated by poor immigrants who fled Fujian and Guangdong, China. Looks like you were again successful in forcing your Tai language, heritage, and culture on these people too because they seem to speak and identify as Thai nowadays.

Be honest with yourself. There's no way Thai-Siamese could be 'pure' Tai/Dai or anything other than a Mon-Khmer and Dai mixture much like your Laotian brethren.
Quote:
You say it is impossible for a minority people to shift a language? How about the most popular and well known language of them all: English. Did you know that that the genetic impact of Anglo-Saxons on the British Isles was minimal but that their language replaced all of the native language including Brittonic-Celtic, Irish, Welsh, and Scottish Gaelic? Not only that but English has penetrated throughout the world and will eventually become the world's primary language if current globalization rates continue. Think about it, the language of a small island country in Northwest Europe of about 50 million has influenced 775 million people worldwide, and will continue for the foreseeable future until it becomes the dominant global language.
And did those 775 million speaking English at their "first language"??? No... They didn't. They speak regional their native language first then they learn English as 2nd language.

Quote:
Only in the Thai-Siamese case, native Mon-Khmer ancestry make up the majority while the reverse is true of Mexicans (on average).
"Only in the Thai-Siamese case" LOL.

Should I or anyone here believe this statement of yours?? Since this is the "ONLY CASE" out of the "whole world history".

Anyway, for "my case" that the national language will be based on the language of dominated race of the nation which I use in the argument with you have been happening countless times in the world history like 100% of the time. So it's make more sense and trust-able than your "ONLY CASE" in "whole world history".

Quote:
Funny, how you insist on modern Vietnamese being a fusion of natives and Chinese and yet the language never shifted towards a Sinitic one. It really must speak volumes on the relative strength of the native civilizations especially when compared to the pre-Taiified Siamese who essentially allowed poor immigrants fleeing Yunnan to dominate their economy and nation. The same immigrants who in Vietnam are regarded as poor uneducated mountain minorities. We shouldn't be surprised at this fact because Siam/Thailand is now currently dominated by poor immigrants who fled Fujian and Guangdong, China. Looks like you were again successful in forcing your Tai language, heritage, and culture on these people too because they seem to speak and identify as Thai nowadays.

Be honest with yourself. There's no way Thai-Siamese could be 'pure' Tai/Dai or anything other than a Mon-Khmer and Dai mixture much like your Laotian brethren.
I never ever say that the "whole" Laos and Thailand are populated by pure 100% of Tai/Dai race.

Pure of mixed, it's regional.

In the Northern Laos/Northern Thailand/Upper-eastern Thailand, these area are more likely to be pure.
While Southern Laos/Central Thailand/Lower-eastern Thailand/Southern Thailand, these area are more likely to be mixed of Dai/Han-Chinese/Khmer/Malay.

This topic shown more information
Ethnicity and average look of Lao and Thai
 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:47 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,238,353 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
The srivijayan kingdom extended as far as the thai and khmer land, sumatra was also a major buddhist religional center before thailand or cambodia become fully buddhist.
When was Buddhism introduced to Indonesia?
 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:49 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,238,353 times
Reputation: 2833
^ Vietnamese are who they are now. Vietnamese 2,000 years ago were a different people. The Romans are different to Italians, Han dynasty Chinese different to the ones now. Stop longing for a time long gone by. No Vietnamese today would not exist if not for 'mixing. That's who they are.
 
Old 04-07-2014, 12:53 AM
 
45 posts, read 88,491 times
Reputation: 18
You want another case of language shift where a minority influenced a majority?

Let's take a look at the Indo-Aryan invasion of the Indian subcontinent. Hundreds of millions of people who speak an Indo-European language as their first despite the overwhelming amount of native pre-Aryan ancestry so visible in modern Indians today.

If it can happen to India to hundreds of millions of people than how can it not be possible to Thailand as well?

---

Repeat after me:
Indo-European speakers are to India what Tai-Kradai speakers are to Thailand (Siam).
 
Old 04-07-2014, 01:07 AM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aromesaveur View Post
There is so much irony in this quote that I can't help but laugh at it. Replace 'Vietnamese' with 'Thai-Siamese' and 'Han-Chinese' with 'Tai' and you'll see just how ridiculous you sound .

It's a shame you aspire to be 'pure' Tai like a Vietnamese and not of your true Mon-Khmer heritage, who in my opinion are much more accomplished than Dai-Vietnamese people are.
Bro....like I said....

"What you said is as bull$hit as saying Latino are genetically more European than the Spainish themselves LOL."

I can't believe your Vietnamese wanted to related to the Dai/Tai/Tai-Kadai this much(but yet you don't even have a single thing that could connect you to the Dai/Tai in any part of your history. All your have in the Vietnamese history are either Mon-Khmer or Han-Chinese, and none of Tai-Kadai/Dai/Tai in it)

Compare to the Lao/Thai, their history are completely related to the Dai/Tai/Tai-Kadai that they are from Yunnan,South-western China in 13th century. Even today they still obviously are same people.

Even 3rd party people like Han-Chinese also know about this.
Dai ethnic group - are they similar to Thai? - Ethnic Minorities of China - China History Forum, Chinese History Forum


Even the Cambodian(Khmer) who were Native/original owner of the most part of mainland SEA are also agreed on this and they made a video about it, in order to claim their land back from the Tai/Dai, and asking Dai/Tai(majority of Laos and Thailand) to go back to China lol.


So yes, everyone around here know about this story. Don't matter how hard Vietnamese trying to claim relationship with the Dai/Tai(ethnic majority of Laos/Thailand/South-western China) no one will ever believe it but yourselves.
 
Old 04-07-2014, 01:17 AM
 
138 posts, read 643,564 times
Reputation: 42
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
You mean why didn't the Vietnamese start speaking Chinese despite 1000 years of occupation? Well like Korea and Japan, it was heavily sinified, and Chinese did heavily influence it even though they maintained their own language. It's no different to say Yue/Cantonese, except Yue is closer to Middle Chinese and has it's roots in Chinese.
Quote:
You mean why didn't the Vietnamese start speaking Chinese despite 1000 years of occupation?
It's because native Vietnamese(Mon-Khmer) race are dominated race in Vietnam and not Han-Chinese race. Unlike Taiwan or Singapore that has Han-Chinese as a dominated race and fewer of Austronesian race who are native.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top