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Old 04-12-2014, 03:35 PM
 
Location: Filipinas
1,761 posts, read 6,968,342 times
Reputation: 402

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FCStraight View Post
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I can speak mostly for the Philippines...although I know that English language in Malaysia was...and still the predominant language of business and international affairs particularly in the larger cities like KL. According to an associate who spent some business time in KL, everyone she ran into..from office folks to vendors in the market...spoke English. Of course, when they are among their fellow country folks they revert back to speaking Melayu. All the Malaysians I had the fortune to meet in my ventures around the world spoke fluent English. The decline in use of English that you alluded to may be attributed to resurgence of nationalism, pride for one's own country and culture (including native language). Rightfully so. Chinese is also widely spoken in Malaysia...due to their sheer numbers. Just like in the Philippines...and practically everywhere in Asia where a large population of Chinese live.

Remember, that the way the British dealt with their colonies is not the same way the Americans dealt with their subjects in the Philippines. The Americans were more like "benevolent" colonizers...specially during the second half of their colonization. The Filipinos were quite happy with the opportunity the Americans gave them..in education, economic aid, and the English language. English was not imposed, as you said--which sounds like it was forced on them. They were hungry for education that the Spaniards pretty much denied them during their 300 years of domination. Americans gave it to them. And they happily took it. Thanks to the Thomasites...the first American teachers in the Philippines. So consider in looking for answer to your question- Malaysian experience with their British colonizers is much different from the Filipinos' experience with the Americans.

Now about the Philippines. They tried to rekindle a sense of nationalism and bring back the use of "Pilipino" (Tagalog) at all levels and sectors of the country with little success. I noticed, however, when I returned more recently to visit relatives in Iloilo (on the island of Panay, in the Visayan region), people there spoke Tagalog more regularly than they did when I studied there many years ago.
The dialect spoken in Iloilo is Hiligaynon (in other parts of the same island, there are other dialects spoken). Naturally, English is practically a native language even in remote places. In Manila, you might as well be in any city in the USA.

Perhaps the Americans did such a good job Americanizing the country during their occupation that today, English is widely spoke even among Filipinos. Remember, with so many languages and dialects spoken in the Philippines, they needed a languge that is viable and practical to use to help unify commercial activities throughout the archipelago. And it's paying off...in terms of getting investors, foreign and domestic, to set up businesses throughout the country and help its economy.

I grew up in Manila, my parents of American and Spanish descent. We spoke English and Castillan-Spanish at home, but spoke Tagalog with our housekeeper and houseboy...and when hanging out with my friends. In school, it was English. And all the subjects (except for National Language (Pilipino), were taught in English. Even today...from kindergarten to university.

Hope this helps. May I suggest, if you want to learn what and how it happened, read Stanley Karnow's IN OUR IMAGE: America's Empire in the Philippines. The best history book (reads like a novel) I've ever read about the Philippines and its experience with America.
English was actually a forced language if you haven't seen the documentary regarding Philippines-American war documentary that anything against the rule during those time will be killed specially general jacob smith says 'Kill everyone over 10" who will be against American rule.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp...93American_War

notice why Spanish was still recognized language even during the 1920s-30s until 70's. It was only after the WWII when the English became famous and took the Spanish Language out from the official language and chose tagalog as official language under the American Commonwealth & English as only the foreign language remain as official because they promoted this. Which at the end was used as advantage for us that we learned english because we used the language in business communication and other communication to non-Filipino.

A lot of Filipino ethnic group fought for the national language because they felt they've been left out until tagalog was changed to Filipino to include other words from other ethnic group including the additional letters that you will find from the Indigenous Filipinos. Because we have 200 more or less languages in the Philippines, They don't want only tagalog as National because that's not their own mother tongue but most of the Filipino Language was based in Tagalog but today national language is not totally or only tagalog. It has other ethnic languages from different group in the Philippines.

The disadvantage though to other Filipino mentality is that if you know english, it is a sign that you are intellectual and educated. but if you doesn't know how to speak a fluent or any word in english it seems you are illiterate or uneducated. English is more like 1st than the national language to most Filipinos. Learning English is not bad but it should be equal to our national language, Filipino. Notice some of the teenagers or elite, they kept on using taglish instead of straight Filipino if you speak in Filipino or Straight english if you speak straight english.

Last edited by pinai; 04-12-2014 at 04:30 PM..

 
Old 04-12-2014, 06:18 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,252,153 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
List of countries by English-speaking population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or as a single source: English as a Global Language - David Crystal - Google Books

Granted, that's a decade-old survey. I suspect that the English has actually become even more prevalent since then.

You can also try googling other surveys.

I think those living in slums isn't a particularly good barometer for describing the general population. Certainly there's poverty in the Philippines, but it's nothing close to being the majority of the population for it to make sense to use that as evidence. Also, you're using random videos here and there which would qualify as just as anecdotal in the sense of being a very small sample, wouldn't it?
Yeah these stats are very dated, I don't believe the sampling anyway. It says only 350,000 Singaporeans speak English as a first language, but latest census figures put it at 32%, which is over 2 million. In Malaysia the 25% figure I suspect is to those who are fluent: there's no way 75% can't speak English at all, I'd say more like 20% don't speak any English. The situation actually seems pretty close to the Philippines.
 
Old 04-12-2014, 06:39 PM
 
Location: West Jakarta + Tangerang
376 posts, read 743,612 times
Reputation: 77
I prefer the Filipino have communication english very well, not only that, in many schools, English is used as medium of instruction. generally known philippines very westernized with American influences that give a good English language skills for the filipino people , because so do not be surprised there are many foreign demand for labor continues to flow into the Philippines .This ability to speak English gives them an edge over their counterparts in Asia. even I hear many Koreans came to the philipines to school and learn English there.
btw, Malaysians also good in good English because there is British influence, but whatever it is, Filipinas continues to be my favorite
 
Old 04-12-2014, 06:42 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,007,201 times
Reputation: 1798
^ Yes, I read that 30,000 Koreans study English in the Philippines each year. A lot of Japanese and some Arabs also come. They use the Philippines as a place to improve and practice their English skills before going to native English-speaking countries like the US
 
Old 04-12-2014, 07:34 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,154 posts, read 23,683,428 times
Reputation: 11625
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Yeah these stats are very dated, I don't believe the sampling anyway. It says only 350,000 Singaporeans speak English as a first language, but latest census figures put it at 32%, which is over 2 million. In Malaysia the 25% figure I suspect is to those who are fluent: there's no way 75% can't speak English at all, I'd say more like 20% don't speak any English. The situation actually seems pretty close to the Philippines.
Yes, but that is an actual published study so there. There are other studies out there and you will be very hard-pressed to find any study that would support Malaysia having a higher prevalence of English-speakers than the Philippines within the last couple decades. This would be on top of pretty much everyone who has ever traveled to both places corroborating this. I'm curious as to how you arrived at the idea that it would be the other way around.
 
Old 04-12-2014, 08:27 PM
 
369 posts, read 800,556 times
Reputation: 339
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
While I haven't been to the Philippines, I find it hard to believe the standard of spoken and written (especially written) English among the whole population, all 90+ million including all the poor people in slums and villages, is higher than Malaysia as a whole...

Yes, Malaysia has regressed in it's standard of English: since the 1970s education has been in Malay, more signs etc are in Malay, yet English is still kind of resilient. I notice in some places Chinese is also more spoken than English. Still, at least as a second language, most Malaysians seem decently fluently, even if maybe a minority are totally 'native' sounding. I'd say about 25-30% of Malaysians (not foreigners) speak it as their first or main language too.

Especially if you compared KL to Manila...Malaysia has it's British colonial history/cultural influence, but the Philippines has had English imposed upon it by the United States.

For those who have spent significant time in both what would you say?
I'm so surprised that you didn't include Singapore in the comparison.
 
Old 04-12-2014, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,252,153 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinai View Post
English was actually a forced language if you haven't seen the documentary regarding Philippines-American war documentary that anything against the rule during those time will be killed specially general jacob smith says 'Kill everyone over 10" who will be against American rule.

Philippine

notice why Spanish was still recognized language even during the 1920s-30s until 70's. It was only after the WWII when the English became famous and took the Spanish Language out from the official language and chose tagalog as official language under the American Commonwealth & English as only the foreign language remain as official because they promoted this. Which at the end was used as advantage for us that we learned english because we used the language in business communication and other communication to non-Filipino.

A lot of Filipino ethnic group fought for the national language because they felt they've been left out until tagalog was changed to Filipino to include other words from other ethnic group including the additional letters that you will find from the Indigenous Filipinos. Because we have 200 more or less languages in the Philippines, They don't want only tagalog as National because that's not their own mother tongue but most of the Filipino Language was based in Tagalog but today national language is not totally or only tagalog. It has other ethnic languages from different group in the Philippines.

The disadvantage though to other Filipino mentality is that if you know english, it is a sign that you are intellectual and educated. but if you doesn't know how to speak a fluent or any word in english it seems you are illiterate or uneducated. English is more like 1st than the national language to most Filipinos. Learning English is not bad but it should be equal to our national language, Filipino. Notice some of the teenagers or elite, they kept on using taglish instead of straight Filipino if you speak in Filipino or Straight english if you speak straight english.
Yeah it seems Filipinos lack the same nationalism (at least politically) that Indonesia and Malaysia had/have. They looked up to the US more...is baseball big there? It's big in Korea, Japan and Taiwan due to American influence. Interesting also despite American influence Protestantism never made big inroads there.
 
Old 04-12-2014, 08:46 PM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,007,201 times
Reputation: 1798
Protestantism is huge in the Philippines. Just drive around Manila and you'll see the Evangelical influence everywhere. In fact, if you didnt know any better, you might think the main religion was Iglesia Ni Cristo because their churches are everywhere and very visible
 
Old 04-12-2014, 08:48 PM
 
Location: Malang, Indonesia
72 posts, read 121,072 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
Protestantism is huge in the Philippines. Just drive around Manila and you'll see the Evangelical influence everywhere
Protestantism is higher in Indonesia than Philippines as far as I know.
 
Old 04-12-2015, 01:16 PM
 
1 posts, read 888 times
Reputation: 20
people in the philippines were taught english from the start of their schooling.and english is the standard language in bussiness,politics,media and writings.almost all of them understand english,but some are just not confident enough to speak it maybe because theyre afraid to be ridiculed of their accent..coz there are filipinos who speak english with thick filipino accents.although it is evolving to a much neutral accent due to exposure to the western culture....the fact that more and more call center companies invest in the philippines rather than in india proves that the country in one of the best english speakers in asia,if not the most
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