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Old 04-16-2014, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Washington State
18,705 posts, read 9,653,739 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
many troubles are indirectly instigated by the US. Many of us simply don't know all about it.

For example the US would LOOOOVE to see the euro zone collapse, or at least remain weak. It would also enjoy seeing China and Japan antagnizing each other.

The US only accounts for 21% of world GDP now, but it keeps pretending the share is 45%... things will gradually change and someday it won't be capable to acting like a world cop.
The US doesn't want the Euro Zone to collapse or want China & Japan antagonizing each other. Most Americans are tired of being the world cop and want to pull US troops from most of the world. If Rand Paul is elected next time (I hope), you'll see the USA ramp down much of its troops and bring them home.

China & Japan are enemies from previous wars and transgressions...the US doesn't want to see them antagonistic with each other or one having a dominant relationship with the other. Some Americans don't trust the Chinese Govt but I am confident they are getting good leadership currently.

Regarding the Euro Zone, most Americans trace their roots to Europe and understand our law, economics, philosophy, traditions etc are European in origin. Of course we compete with them in numerous industries but we are competitive and don't fear them (unless Germany decides to adopt their 30's era mentality).

As far as I know, the US gets very little to no benefit and a huge expense for their troops in Korea, japan, Germany, etc.
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Old 04-16-2014, 04:26 PM
 
164 posts, read 220,419 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
The US doesn't want the Euro Zone to collapse or want China & Japan antagonizing each other. Most Americans are tired of being the world cop and want to pull US troops from most of the world. If Rand Paul is elected next time (I hope), you'll see the USA ramp down much of its troops and bring them home.


Botticelli maybe right, the real DC is House of Cards, not Baptist Church.
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Old 04-18-2014, 03:43 PM
 
1,434 posts, read 2,121,244 times
Reputation: 772
Maybe because the Chinese ppl are subjected to state run media and constantly brainwashed into believing what the gov't says!
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Old 04-18-2014, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mistertee View Post
Maybe because the Chinese ppl are subjected to state run media and constantly brainwashed into believing what the gov't says!
I was able to access a CNN story on the 20th anniversary of the Tianenmen massacre over my phone while here in China. You can access a lot of this "banned" information with relative ease and most university students plus many others have VPN's they use to get over the great firewall.

Most Chinese are totally aware that their government manipulates the media and accept it, though they're hardly in love with it. I think that the idea that the average chinese person is a brainwashed drone is as patronizingly ugly as the attitude that Americans are all brainwashed media drones.
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Old 04-18-2014, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,284,331 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I was able to access a CNN story on the 20th anniversary of the Tianenmen massacre over my phone while here in China. You can access a lot of this "banned" information with relative ease and most university students plus many others have VPN's they use to get over the great firewall.

Most Chinese are totally aware that their government manipulates the media and accept it, though they're hardly in love with it. I think that the idea that the average chinese person is a brainwashed drone is as patronizingly ugly as the attitude that Americans are all brainwashed media drones.
Definitely. I've spoken with quite a few Chinese people here, and let's just say, none are the, 'I'm a loyal communist, always loyal to the party' type...then again would such people go abroad, except to adopt western ways to improve China?

Chinese people aren't dumb, or at least no dumber than anyone else.
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Old 04-18-2014, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Definitely. I've spoken with quite a few Chinese people here, and let's just say, none are the, 'I'm a loyal communist, always loyal to the party' type...then again would such people go abroad, except to adopt western ways to improve China?

Chinese people aren't dumb, or at least no dumber than anyone else.
Yeah, a lot of the ones that end up moving abroad are people who are doing so because they believe that it's a better opportunity for them; excepting refugees, why else do most people leave their homelands and everyone and everything they know?

I've found that most Chinese immigrants in the US are certainly proud of China's culture and economic rise, but are hardly loyal Red Guards or anything. Most of the more nationalist-bent Chinese I've met in the US are angsty and idealistic second-generation teens and young adults who were raised if not also born in the US who didn't experience whatever circumstances made their parents decide that the US was a better choice. An exception to this would be Chinese university students who come to the US to learn, but have no intention of staying here and do indeed plan to return to China with an education to improve it. I've met a few who were basically anti-Western aside from where the ideals benefited them.

As far as it is here, people are really no more or less patriotic than they are anywhere else. You get some hardline nationalists and you get some intellectual anti-statists, with most people falling somewhere between. FWIW, I had to go to a PLA hospital because I had a chest injury, and while I was there, a couple groups of PLA soldiers in fatigues came and wanted to take pictures with me, asked me where I was from, if I liked Chinese food, told me they loved hamburgers, etc. If anyone would think of the US as troublemakers, it'd be them, but they gave me a pretty warm welcome even knowing that I was an American.
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:02 AM
 
164 posts, read 220,419 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Yeah, a lot of the ones that end up moving abroad are people who are doing so because they believe that it's a better opportunity for them; excepting refugees, why else do most people leave their homelands and everyone and everything they know?

I've found that most Chinese immigrants in the US are certainly proud of China's culture and economic rise, but are hardly loyal Red Guards or anything. Most of the more nationalist-bent Chinese I've met in the US are angsty and idealistic second-generation teens and young adults who were raised if not also born in the US who didn't experience whatever circumstances made their parents decide that the US was a better choice. An exception to this would be Chinese university students who come to the US to learn, but have no intention of staying here and do indeed plan to return to China with an education to improve it. I've met a few who were basically anti-Western aside from where the ideals benefited them.

As far as it is here, people are really no more or less patriotic than they are anywhere else. You get some hardline nationalists and you get some intellectual anti-statists, with most people falling somewhere between. FWIW, I had to go to a PLA hospital because I had a chest injury, and while I was there, a couple groups of PLA soldiers in fatigues came and wanted to take pictures with me, asked me where I was from, if I liked Chinese food, told me they loved hamburgers, etc. If anyone would think of the US as troublemakers, it'd be them, but they gave me a pretty warm welcome even knowing that I was an American.
PLA solider wants to take photo with American does not prove your judgement that they are not patriots. The smile on Hagel's face does not mean that he thinks Chinese is submissive to America.

When people here laughing for brainwashing, I want to remind that Asian's IQ is among the highest group on earth. Your narcissism will blind you know how they think. People here may think you are brainwashed from the first day at school.
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Old 04-19-2014, 01:15 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhgz View Post
PLA solider wants to take photo with American does not prove your judgement that they are not patriots. The smile on Hagel's face does not mean that he thinks Chinese is submissive to America.
*big sigh*

I didn't say that I didn't think that they weren't patriots and that's not my judgement - they're soldiers, their job is to be a patriot. My statement was that they didn't treat me as a troublesome foreign national, and that if anyone in China would have cause to treat me as such, it would be the soldiers who are tasked with defending their country from meddlesome or marauding foreign nationals. If this was a common attitude in China, I don't think I'd enjoy living here as much... I love China and the Chinese people and part of the reason for this is that I've been so warmly welcomed and treated with such kindness.

Hagel's smile doesn't mean that he thinks that China is submissive to the US and I don't think that anyone in the US would think it as such. Why even mention this other than tooting your own nationalistic horn? As I mentioned before, the US and China's militaries are cooperating more than ever and will continue to do so. The Hainan incident and the embassy bombing (which was utterly stupid but almost certainly accidental as there was nothing for the US to possibly gain by bombing a Chinese embassy) are hardly fresh or anywhere near the front of most Chinese peoples' minds, or the Chinese government for that matter, when it comes to foreign policy.

Quote:
When people here laughing for brainwashing, I want to remind that Asian's IQ is among the highest group on earth. Your narcissism will blind you know how they think. People here may think you are brainwashed from the first day at school.
I don't know if this is directed at me or not, but I stated that I don't think that the Chinese people are any more or less "brainwashed" than anyone else. I will say that your narcissism is showing all the same here, with you making uncalled for and erroneous snap judgments and touting the higher-than-average IQ of a group, which hardly means that the region is indemnified from having fools or idiots.

Last edited by 415_s2k; 04-19-2014 at 01:24 AM..
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Old 04-19-2014, 04:09 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,284,331 times
Reputation: 2833
How much, if any, Mandarin do you speak 415?
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Old 04-19-2014, 05:02 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
How much, if any, Mandarin do you speak 415?
Not very much, enough to get by and make very small talk.
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