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Old 04-19-2014, 05:14 AM
 
Location: Washington State
18,615 posts, read 9,618,463 times
Reputation: 15850

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Definitely. I've spoken with quite a few Chinese people here, and let's just say, none are the, 'I'm a loyal communist, always loyal to the party' type...then again would such people go abroad, except to adopt western ways to improve China?

Chinese people aren't dumb, or at least no dumber than anyone else.
When I worked in China, I never heard any Chinese overtly criticize their Govt because it was not prudent to do so. But I was surprised how vocally critical several became of their Govt when we left Chinese soil and had a few beers while working in Mongolia. I was worried some of their compatriots might hear them and report what they said after they returned to China.
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:36 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhgz View Post

When people here laughing for brainwashing, I want to remind that Asian's IQ is among the highest group on earth. Your narcissism will blind you know how they think. People here may think you are brainwashed from the first day at school.
Most People in the "west" are equally brainwashed by their media - they are just not aware of it.

Honestly from my personally experience, most Americans have no idea what China's many high profiled issues, such as labour cost, Tibet/Xinjiang, corruption, or pollution - they may know something about some facts, but nowhere near an objective overall assessment of the issue.

For example, how many westerners actually know what the Tibetan society was like before the China "invasion"? No, western media almost never mention the fact that average Tibetans had no basically human rights or freedom under Dalai Lama, who wants independence solely out of selfishness and was simply used as puppets by UK/US to contain China.

I have also heard about China's "ghost towns" - yes there are some largely uninhabited towns in northern China, but then many start to believe that the entire infrastructure construction in China is a nothing but a sham. How many of them actually visited China's highly dense coastal and eastern cities? They always believe that they want to believe - maybe out of the need to make themselves feel better, that China is not doing that well, and that the west will always dominate at the end of the day despite all these fuss over China's rising.

Pollution is another example. It is so easy to criticize China's filthy air quality, but do you want to get to the bottom of the problem? For example, have you considered the following facts before passing harsh judgment?

1) Most industrialized countries have been there. The UK, US, Korea. China is simply going through that phase. Additionally, countries with much less enviable growth such as India, actually have worse air quality problem - western media simply don't want to report it because India is an "ally".

2) It may be easy to cut pollution by ordering the shutdown of heavy industry. But what about those workers working there? There are tens of millions of them, have you thought about their lives? What should they do, go back to the countryside farming generation after generation breathing their clean air making $2 a day?

3) China has little cleaner energy resources such as natural gas (per capita reserve is like 10% of world average). The country has to rely heavily on coal. China does want to switch from coal by securing cleaner energy elsewhere, but then look at Unocal, the US congress refuses to sell because of "national security“. similar opposition is seen in Canada as well. When China buys resources from non-western countries, western media starts to say China is "exploiting" those countries. You be the judge of that.

Speaking of brainwashing, I have seen enough of that in western countries on a daily basis and it is not less serious at all, yet most seem to think because they have "freedom of speech/press", they have access to all the fair and objective assessment of what happens in the world. It will be extremely stupid to believe that western media, especially english language news, is not biased and always provides complete and accurate information. They probably don't lie outright, but they make you believe what they want you to believe by manipulating fragments of truth.
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:40 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
When I worked in China, I never heard any Chinese overtly criticize their Govt because it was not prudent to do so. But I was surprised how vocally critical several became of their Govt when we left Chinese soil and had a few beers while working in Mongolia. I was worried some of their compatriots might hear them and report what they said after they returned to China.
well, you are a foreigner and they probably don't want to criticize to you (your country does enough of that). But the Chinese criticize their government every minute. It is not like in the 60s when any discontent may bring you to jail.

Hear and report? Where do you live, 1969? Unless you do something serious, nobody will report you for saying the government is bad. I was in Shanghai last month and seen huge banners on condo balconies blaming the government has been "unfair" and "broken promises". They were their for years and nobody is put in prison for that. learn some truth before posting stuff like this.
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Old 04-19-2014, 08:42 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,266,372 times
Reputation: 2833
^ Well yeah, most media is not independent and has a vested interest. Even so called 'independent' sources reflect the reporter's own biases, when it comes to things written by people there simply is no 'objective reporting.'
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Old 04-20-2014, 06:30 AM
 
164 posts, read 220,210 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
^ Well yeah, most media is not independent and has a vested interest. Even so called 'independent' sources reflect the reporter's own biases, when it comes to things written by people there simply is no 'objective reporting.'
Unfortunately, this post has been on a old route...Different people speaking what they learn from media. By the way, when we talking about dictatorship or censorship, CCP is a party require their students to learn English (I think over 200 million Chinese students need to take English class every day). Almost every student in China can speak a little English or writing some English. However, when I stop by at a gas station in Mississippi and Alabama, some people there believe that New York is U.S capitol and Pearl Harbor is somewhere in Africa.....
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:00 PM
 
Location: Western Oregon
1,379 posts, read 1,276,085 times
Reputation: 1268
Quote:
Originally Posted by xhgz View Post
... Almost every student in China can speak a little English or writing some English. However, when I stop by at a gas station in Mississippi and Alabama, some people there believe that New York is U.S capitol and Pearl Harbor is somewhere in Africa.....
So you interview people in Mississippi and Alabama, and it is your unbiased conclusion that a significant number of them are that ignorant?

BS
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:06 PM
 
Location: Western Oregon
1,379 posts, read 1,276,085 times
Reputation: 1268
US is the biggest troublemaker, in most people's eyes. It is because the US has the most influence and that's not always a good thing. Look at how Switzerland got rich by staying neutral. Look at how Canada can get some benefits of being the USA's top neighbor, while avoiding a lot of the risks.

Personally I wish the USA had a more mellow part in the world's politics. We don't really have the choice.
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Old 04-21-2014, 10:08 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,679 posts, read 74,680,484 times
Reputation: 48200
it is inevitable that other countries will challenge our proclaimed robo cop of the world status.
the fact is we need robo cop here not there.
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Old 04-29-2014, 01:10 AM
 
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
143 posts, read 152,484 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Most People in the "west" are equally brainwashed by their media - they are just not aware of it.

Honestly from my personally experience, most Americans have no idea what China's many high profiled issues, such as labour cost, Tibet/Xinjiang, corruption, or pollution - they may know something about some facts, but nowhere near an objective overall assessment of the issue.

For example, how many westerners actually know what the Tibetan society was like before the China "invasion"? No, western media almost never mention the fact that average Tibetans had no basically human rights or freedom under Dalai Lama, who wants independence solely out of selfishness and was simply used as puppets by UK/US to contain China.

I have also heard about China's "ghost towns" - yes there are some largely uninhabited towns in northern China, but then many start to believe that the entire infrastructure construction in China is a nothing but a sham. How many of them actually visited China's highly dense coastal and eastern cities? They always believe that they want to believe - maybe out of the need to make themselves feel better, that China is not doing that well, and that the west will always dominate at the end of the day despite all these fuss over China's rising.

Pollution is another example. It is so easy to criticize China's filthy air quality, but do you want to get to the bottom of the problem? For example, have you considered the following facts before passing harsh judgment?

1) Most industrialized countries have been there. The UK, US, Korea. China is simply going through that phase. Additionally, countries with much less enviable growth such as India, actually have worse air quality problem - western media simply don't want to report it because India is an "ally".

2) It may be easy to cut pollution by ordering the shutdown of heavy industry. But what about those workers working there? There are tens of millions of them, have you thought about their lives? What should they do, go back to the countryside farming generation after generation breathing their clean air making $2 a day?

3) China has little cleaner energy resources such as natural gas (per capita reserve is like 10% of world average). The country has to rely heavily on coal. China does want to switch from coal by securing cleaner energy elsewhere, but then look at Unocal, the US congress refuses to sell because of "national security“. similar opposition is seen in Canada as well. When China buys resources from non-western countries, western media starts to say China is "exploiting" those countries. You be the judge of that.

Speaking of brainwashing, I have seen enough of that in western countries on a daily basis and it is not less serious at all, yet most seem to think because they have "freedom of speech/press", they have access to all the fair and objective assessment of what happens in the world. It will be extremely stupid to believe that western media, especially english language news, is not biased and always provides complete and accurate information. They probably don't lie outright, but they make you believe what they want you to believe by manipulating fragments of truth.

blah blah blah.. Tell it to someone that cares.
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Old 04-30-2014, 01:39 PM
 
1,434 posts, read 2,119,882 times
Reputation: 772
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I was able to access a CNN story on the 20th anniversary of the Tianenmen massacre over my phone while here in China. You can access a lot of this "banned" information with relative ease and most university students plus many others have VPN's they use to get over the great firewall.

Most Chinese are totally aware that their government manipulates the media and accept it, though they're hardly in love with it. I think that the idea that the average chinese person is a brainwashed drone is as patronizingly ugly as the attitude that Americans are all brainwashed media drones.


There are many areas in China that have more restriction and less access to media and freedom. The great firewall is very active and any ability to circumvent it is restricted whenver its found. Did America have re education camps?
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