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Old 04-16-2014, 06:39 PM
 
Location: East coast
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Obviously, the rise of Europe meant that every region in Asia changed in some way.

South-east Asia had colonial rule by a number of European powers whether it be the Dutch East Indies or Spanish Philippines. The Indian subcontinent was obviously under British and other European rule for quite some time. Much of the Middle East was also influenced by colonial rule by Brits too, after the Ottoman empire weakened. Central Asia was part of the Russian empire when European Russia begun to gain power over the nomads that once threatened them. East Asia was less directly colonized (since China was not directly colonized by any European power, but of course, contact with the west did influence it; even China turning to Communism was a result of this). Japan and Korea escaped colonization by Europeans but American influence was pretty strong.

Which region do you think was influenced the most by the contact and experience with the west? Which one the least?
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:45 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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It's hard to pick a whole region. I'd say Singapore, Malaysia, Philippines, Japan, Taiwan the most. Central Asia by the Soviets, but that's kind of a different thing.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:49 PM
 
Location: East coast
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One thing I find interesting is how it seems India or the Indian subcontinent had been under actual British or Western rule for quite a long time more than a couple centuries, yet it seems to be more traditional or retained more traditional ways than parts of Asia that were under colonial rule for a much shorter time or even not directly at all, such as Japan or other parts of East Asia.
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Old 04-16-2014, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markovian process View Post
One thing I find interesting is how it seems India or the Indian subcontinent had been under actual British or Western rule for quite a long time more than a couple centuries, yet it seems to be more traditional or retained more traditional ways than parts of Asia that were under colonial rule for a much shorter time or even not directly at all, such as Japan or other parts of East Asia.
Yes, Indian culture is so ancient and deep-entrenched. Hinduism as a religion has a history of over 5,000 years. The sheer traditionalism including the caste system held it back.

In the case of China, I think Communism and the Cultural Revolution played a large role. While not colonised Japan has a long (and complicated) history with the west. They went from embracing anything western to shunning it. For instance, after the Portuguese arrived in the 16th century firearms became very popular and the Japanese began manufacturing many of their own and fighting with them. Japan was the only country to have imperialist/colonial ambitions in modern times and actively began adopting many western things to compete with the European powers.
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Old 04-16-2014, 08:27 PM
 
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Yes, Indian culture is so ancient and deep-entrenched. Hinduism as a religion has a history of over 5,000 years. The sheer traditionalism including the caste system held it back.

In the case of China, I think Communism and the Cultural Revolution played a large role. While not colonised Japan has a long (and complicated) history with the west. They went from embracing anything western to shunning it. For instance, after the Portuguese arrived in the 16th century firearms became very popular and the Japanese began manufacturing many of their own and fighting with them. Japan was the only country to have imperialist/colonial ambitions in modern times and actively began adopting many western things to compete with the European powers.
Not only that, but Japan's industrial revolution started after the US's, and was the first non-white country to industrialize, well ahead of its neighbors. Seems like since Portuguese contact, Japan has been on a quest to match, or exceed, the West in practically everything. More specifically, seems like they want to be the UK of the East
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:23 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
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All major Asian nations have been indelibly impacted by the West:

India is the world's largest democracy, has a world-class university system, and many leading researchers come from India. They launch their own satellites now as well and have begun competing with China.

China was more influenced by Russia, if anything because they didn't want to copy the hated British for the humiliation caused by the Opium wars. They openly embraced Communism, adapted it, then realized it is not the right system. Now they've taken a page from the history of the USA and Japan, started low in the quality/cost/plagiarism ladder and are moving up.

Hong Kong, though, went the other direction, and embraced being a colony/outpost of the British empire/commonwealth. I'd rank HK up with Japan in terms of Westernization but are definitely moving more towards China now. Taiwan, is unique, but also very Western and trending more so.

Japan was openly an empire in modern times and successfully fought a Western power (Russia) to defeat and played good politics during WWI. WWII is another story, but Japan unquestionably is the "most" Westernized.

Vietnam has much of their cuisine and culture influenced by the French and Dutch.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:30 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Not only that, but Japan's industrial revolution started after the US's, and was the first non-white country to industrialize, well ahead of its neighbors. Seems like since Portuguese contact, Japan has been on a quest to match, or exceed, the West in practically everything. More specifically, seems like they want to be the UK of the East
Indeed, they were the only Asian country to make a concerted effort to not only fully industrialise and adopt many burgeoning technologies of the industrial revolution, but to import wholesale western political and philosophical ideas and systems. They adopted the British parliamentary system (their Diet) in the early 20th century, and operated as constitutional monarchy (de-facto) prior to the rise of military rule before the Second World War. The parallels between Japan and the UK are many.
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Old 04-16-2014, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
All major Asian nations have been indelibly impacted by the West:

India is the world's largest democracy, has a world-class university system, and many leading researchers come from India. They launch their own satellites now as well and have begun competing with China.

China was more influenced by Russia, if anything because they didn't want to copy the hated British for the humiliation caused by the Opium wars. They openly embraced Communism, adapted it, then realized it is not the right system. Now they've taken a page from the history of the USA and Japan, started low in the quality/cost/plagiarism ladder and are moving up.

Hong Kong, though, went the other direction, and embraced being a colony/outpost of the British empire/commonwealth. I'd rank HK up with Japan in terms of Westernization but are definitely moving more towards China now. Taiwan, is unique, but also very Western and trending more so.

Japan was openly an empire in modern times and successfully fought a Western power (Russia) to defeat and played good politics during WWI. WWII is another story, but Japan unquestionably is the "most" Westernized.

Vietnam has much of their cuisine and culture influenced by the French and Dutch.
Yes, although that doesn't change the fact the middle and upper class in India make up a tiny percentage of the population. I measure a country's development in terms of how the AVERAGE person lives. You can find wealthy people in almost every country.

Aside from Marxism/Communism/Socialism I don't feel China really began adopting culture (just technology) until the economic liberalisation of the 70s under Deng Xiaoping.

HK was administered by the British and still is based largely on it.

Yes, although it still seems very eastern, Japan has adopted a lot of western things and made them their own. Their wealthy has made them more globalised.

Vietnam wasn't greatly influenced by the French, maybe baguettes. I don't see how they were influenced by the Dutch at all, they were never even a Dutch colony.

Similarly Dutch influence on most Indonesians was not large.
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Old 04-17-2014, 11:24 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Yes, although that doesn't change the fact the middle and upper class in India make up a tiny percentage of the population. I measure a country's development in terms of how the AVERAGE person lives. You can find wealthy people in almost every country.

Aside from Marxism/Communism/Socialism I don't feel China really began adopting culture (just technology) until the economic liberalisation of the 70s under Deng Xiaoping.

HK was administered by the British and still is based largely on it.

Yes, although it still seems very eastern, Japan has adopted a lot of western things and made them their own. Their wealthy has made them more globalised.

Vietnam wasn't greatly influenced by the French, maybe baguettes. I don't see how they were influenced by the Dutch at all, they were never even a Dutch colony.

Similarly Dutch influence on most Indonesians was not large.

French influence on food:

Bánh to Baguettes: French Influences on Vietnamese Cuisine

Meanwhile, the French occupation of SE Asia resulted in largely a plantation landowner-effective slave arrangement where the only means of earning income and being a landowner to the natives was to be a landowner for crops for export. All the other modern industries were run and mostly manned by French or Chinese. However, the defeat of the French foreign legionnaires led to a pretty corrupt Western-backed southern state and a northern Communist supported northern state (in clear violation against Western backed Geneva accords in 1956 ... Vietnam was supposed to have been remained whole).

So...the French had an indelible mark on Vietnamese life that perpetuates to this day in some ways.


As for the Dutch, it is true they mostly lived separate lives from the natives, however, after the end of WWII, many Dutch companies laid the foundation of modern Indonesia through laying roadworks and factories right up until Indonesian independence.
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Old 04-18-2014, 02:51 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
French influence on food:

As for the Dutch, it is true they mostly lived separate lives from the natives, however, after the end of WWII, many Dutch companies laid the foundation of modern Indonesia through laying roadworks and factories right up until Indonesian independence.
Well id say the Dutch East Indies itself is the foundation of Indonesia itself, from infrastructure to how the society view things, Dutch enlightenment and modern way of thinking heavily influence the way of thinking of Indonesian people as they go abroad to Holland to study during colonial times (mainly nobles as they're treated more equally), things such as women's emancipation, equal rights and independence movement in the country also are heavily influenced by this. And i think the company already set up loads of things before WW2 such as railroads and public buildings, and during its early days of independence the country rely heavily on this outdated Dutch infrastructure leftovers with very little improvement (until few years ago when infrastructure project booms and actually improved). Some of Indonesia's modern architecture elements also are heavily influenced by the Dutch tropical adapted architecture.

Food wise i would also say there are quiet influence from it, as Dutch began to adopt local food they also introduce new technique and eateries style.
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