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Old 04-26-2014, 11:37 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,504 times
Reputation: 219

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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Sadly the Philippines looks like it's getting left behind. Of course, Indonesia is still no 1 in the region, but Singapore definitely punches way above it's weight. I don't really include it in comparisons because it's more a city-state. After Indonesia Thailand is no 2, then Malaysia, then Philippines and Vietnam, although I suspect Vietnam's China-style boom might see it overtake both the Philippines and Malaysia in overall GDP.
I would put Vietnam above the Philippines, according to wikipedia they have bigger armies and arsenals. But if you are talking about development level i have no comments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I think the fact that the Philippines is largely English-speaking will make it more important in the world than a country where most people don't speak English. English is the global language. People from all over Asia come to the Philippines to learn English. I think when the ASEAN integration happens in 2015, more people from other Southeast Asian countries will study and work in the Philippines because English is supposed to be the official language of the ASEAN. That gives the Philippines, Singapore and Malaysia an advantage.

The Philippines has relatively little crime for a third world country. Yes, when you compare it to Singapore, it looks very dangerous, but it has about the same crime rate as Thailand and Indonesia. These countries are about as dangerous as the US, and nowhere near as dangerous as most of Latin America.
Please other nation like China, Japan and Korea are performing well by becoming a major industrialized developed nation without English language, English language won't put a country more important than the others, it helps however. Beside with China growing madly now, Mandarin will somehow becomes one of the most important language too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
I don't see how the Philippines is getting left-behind. It's doing better than ever. Indonesia has a slightly higher GDP per capita (PPP) but it has a lower HDI than the Philippines. So I'd say they're about the same when it comes to development. I see the Philippines improving more and more in the future, especially with the passage of the RH Law, which will provide free birth control for all. Population growth has been one of the main things that's holding the country back (the other is corruption, and maybe climate change).

This is from earlier this month
"THE PHILIPPINES will likely remain Asia’s fastest-growing economy next to China for a second year in a row, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) said."
GDP growth expected to ‘remain robust’ | BusinessWorld Online

so I dont see how the Philippines is getting left behind. It was behind, but now it's catching up
I always wonder why a nation with population twice bigger than the Philippines have lower malnutrition rate and as well people living in unproper housings, but of course the housing part is just a survey so it is based on replies. And also the level of infrastructure of Indonesia is superior that of the Philippines that makes a boost for Indonesia when it comes to level of development. The HDI of Philippines has always been higher than Indonesia, Indonesia didn't took over Philippine's gdp per capita until 2009 it takes time for HDI to get actually improves as many part of the big islands nation are still undeveloped (though now it does have big projects going on to improve the infras and quality of life, explaining its fast growth in HDI), especially because the past dictatorship have neglected the development outside of Java, as compared to the highly urbanized-populated smaller Philippines.

And yes Philippines is currently growing well as compared to before when it was nicknamed "sickman of Asia'


http://www.prosperity.com/#!/?aspxer...=/Ranking.aspx

Last edited by Goshio22; 04-27-2014 at 12:09 AM..
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Old 04-26-2014, 11:40 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,148,504 times
Reputation: 219
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I meant more as an overall economic power. But yeah, per GDP Indo and the Phils are similar. According to the videos I saw, most poor slum dwellers in the Philippines can hardly speak English though.
For a nation of population 250 million vs 100 million, so if per capita of Indonesia is bigger than Philippines that is something.
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Old 04-27-2014, 12:26 AM
 
3,644 posts, read 9,011,649 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
For a nation of population 250 million vs 100 million, so if per capita of Indonesia is bigger than Philippines that is something.
per capita is per capita. It has nothing to do with the size of the country. Per capita GPD is slightly higher in Indonesian compared to the Philippines, but the HDI in the Philippines is slightly higher than the HDI in Indonesia. So I'd say they're about the same in development.

And English wasn't necessary for a country to succeed back then, but I think it will be in the future. It's more of a global language now. That's why everyone from Saudi Arabia to Korea is trying to learn it. I think any countries where English is already spoken by a large percentage of the population will have a definite advantage. You can better attract business from all over the world if your population can communicate in English.
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Old 04-27-2014, 01:30 PM
 
Location: LONDON BABY
301 posts, read 404,140 times
Reputation: 276
Chinese will never be a major world language because it is a primitive pictorial language.

The rest of the world stopped using pictorial languages thousands of years ago, and they are not going to switch back now, it would be a massive step back.

Pictorial languages are not as advanced, diverse and applicable as alphabetic languages, pictorial languages will soon be phased out completely, they only remain in one small part of the world.
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Old 04-28-2014, 12:13 AM
 
1,379 posts, read 1,816,475 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi wan spaghetti View Post
Chinese will never be a major world language because it is a primitive pictorial language.

The rest of the world stopped using pictorial languages thousands of years ago, and they are not going to switch back now, it would be a massive step back.

Pictorial languages are not as advanced, diverse and applicable as alphabetic languages, pictorial languages will soon be phased out completely, they only remain in one small part of the world.
Tell us more since you seem to have a surprisingly strong knowledge of Chinese linguistics.
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Old 04-28-2014, 03:20 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,266,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi wan spaghetti View Post
Chinese will never be a major world language because it is a primitive pictorial language.

The rest of the world stopped using pictorial languages thousands of years ago, and they are not going to switch back now, it would be a massive step back.

Pictorial languages are not as advanced, diverse and applicable as alphabetic languages, pictorial languages will soon be phased out completely, they only remain in one small part of the world.
Well, it may be cumbersome, but it's served China (and to a large extent Japan, too) well until now. I think Romanisation would have practical benefits, for sure, but would be a huge logistical challenge. The Japanese probably should have romanised though, their hybrid system is rather cumbersome.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:15 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi wan spaghetti View Post
Chinese will never be a major world language because it is a primitive pictorial language.

The rest of the world stopped using pictorial languages thousands of years ago, and they are not going to switch back now, it would be a massive step back.

Pictorial languages are not as advanced, diverse and applicable as alphabetic languages, pictorial languages will soon be phased out completely, they only remain in one small part of the world.
If you are fully fluent in both Chinese and English, you will realize that Chinese is has many advantages that western languages don't.

Let me give you a few example - names of various fish in English have nothing to do with each other (perch, bass, grouper, whatever), but in Chinese, you can tell by seeing the words that they are a certain kind of fish. The same goes for many other animals, objects, clothing etc. For example, without first knowing the word "shirt", one can't guess it is a type of clothes, without knowing the word "pneumonia" one won't know it has anything to do with the lungs (unless you know latin?), while in Chinese just by looking at those words, you know what it basically means (a kind of clothes, an infection of the lung).

Each Chinese character has so much more information than an English letter or words, which is translated into different languages, Chinese is almost always the shortest (at least 30% shorter than the English version).

It is extremely naive to say "pictorial languages will soon be phased out". Chinese speakers represent 20% of world population, and I don't see any sign China will use an alphabet based system, which looked primitive in most Chinese' eyes as every word looks so dry and lack in history/story - they are nothing but a random combination of 26 letters.
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Old 04-28-2014, 01:23 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well, it may be cumbersome, but it's served China (and to a large extent Japan, too) well until now. I think Romanisation would have practical benefits, for sure, but would be a huge logistical challenge. The Japanese probably should have romanised though, their hybrid system is rather cumbersome.
If China has one thing to be most proud of, it is the Chinese language (include the Chinese characters). That alone should be world heritage.

Romanisation is essentially giving up history and thousands of years of culture to what, convenience? Won't ever happen, especially when China is growing strong. The only thing to happen is others suck it up and start to learn Chinese.

English is not really a user-friendly language. Compared with Spanish, its pronunication rules are a completed mess. Consider the pronunication of "ough" in thought, through, though, rough, cough and plough and you will realize how messy this language really is. Native speakers just don't realise it.
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Old 04-28-2014, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,266,372 times
Reputation: 2833
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
If China has one thing to be most proud of, it is the Chinese language (include the Chinese characters). That alone should be world heritage.

Romanisation is essentially giving up history and thousands of years of culture to what, convenience? Won't ever happen, especially when China is growing strong. The only thing to happen is others suck it up and start to learn Chinese.

English is not really a user-friendly language. Compared with Spanish, its pronunication rules are a completed mess. Consider the pronunication of "ough" in thought, through, though, rough, cough and plough and you will realize how messy this language really is. Native speakers just don't realise it.
Yes I agree, and it would be a shame for China to lose that. It's interesting, though, that even most Chinese people couldn't read those Chinese characters until relatively recently since they were illiterate. My grandmother for instance. She only learned Mandarin later in life too.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:21 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,672,208 times
Reputation: 971
Not sure how this thread shifted from the xenophobic topic to language, but any talk about English being the language that will bring economic miracles to every place is not going to happen. The Philippines has a lot of problems hampering its economic growth, there's corruption in the government and it has too many people that rice has to be imported. It does not have petroleum like Indonesia and any cheap power sources (hydroelectricity or other sources) is not enough to provide cheap electricity. With too many people and having a disadvantage in manufacturing, the Philippines has shifted to more service-oriented industries. With friendly attitudes and English skills, there are many Filipinos working as nurses, caregivers, domestic helpers, seamen, cruise ship workers, etc. English has served it well, and there is definitely more opportunities for the Philippines due to that. It does not mean other countries will have their economy stagnate because they do not speak English. Nor will any country's economy shoot up just because of English. If anything, English just prevented the Philippines from sinking to the level of Pakistan and Bangladesh by having a more global outlook and working overseas or in international businesses when local opportunities are limited. English can most likely help the Philippines go up to the GDP per capita level of Thailand but still below Malaysia. At that time, it has to do something else for the economy to improve further. In any case, I believe the level of development in the Philippines is not as bad as those GDP numbers will let you believe. There is a severe case of under reporting in those figures due to corruption.
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