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Old 04-28-2014, 11:14 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,606 posts, read 19,382,716 times
Reputation: 8585

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Last night I was watching a documentary on how the Chinese are causing the likely extinction of elephants and rhinos because they just don't care about those animals. 85% of Chinese people say they plan to buy ivory items. That is more than a billion people. They have no understanding of how precious and human elephants are, no compassion whatsoever. There is a regular genocide on those species taking place at this very moment, while we are wasting our outrage on the Ukraine etc.

The Chinese are bribing poor Africans to butcher tens of thousands of animals just so they can have their ivory artifacts on a shelf in the living room. Chinese diplomats abuse their status to smuggle illegal ivory (there is a total ban on ivory trade) out of Africa on board their planes.

They confronted a Chinese collector of ivory items with the genocide going on. He came up with some really weird, psychopathic answer, namely that according to Buddhism elephants smile when they are allowed to die so their ivory can be used by ivory artisan It's like saying butchering humans so that luxury artisans can use their gold fillings for jewelry makes those humans smile.

Pretty much the same thing goes on with rhinos, which are butchered down because the Chinese turn the horns into pseudo-aphrodisiac powder, which is of course utter bogus.


The Japanese are infamous for their total lack of compassion for whales, which, just like elephants, are among the most highly developed species on earth, basically on the human level.


So, how can it be that East Asians, who on the one hand are known to be intelligent people, are also still such utterly ignorant, barbarian, and superstitious folks?

Last edited by Neuling; 04-28-2014 at 11:40 AM..

 
Old 04-28-2014, 11:42 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,300,838 times
Reputation: 7587
85% Chinese say they plan to buy ivory items, right, that's some solid data here.

And did 85% of the Chinese say they support killing elephants in Africa to have those ivory items?

Excellent attack on East Asians. Let me get something back to you:

88% of all Americans say the animal rights movement has had NO influence on their decision to buy fur.
86% of Americans support an individual’s freedom to choose whether or not to wear fur.
Less than 3% of Americans live by the animal rights philosophy.
There are approximately 1100 retailers and 100 manufacturers in the U.S. U.S. fur sales for 2012 were $1.27 billion
FICA Facts FICA – Fur Information Council of America

Yeah, Asians are so cruel and the white are so compassionate and superior.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 11:49 AM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,606 posts, read 19,382,716 times
Reputation: 8585
While I am against wearing fur, that fur does certainly not come from elephants, whales/dolphins or great apes.
Sorry to say this in case you are East Asian, but the West is way ahead in this respect. If it weren't for the West there would not be any awareness let alone trade ban in the first place.

Your question is ridiculous. Are those 85% so stupid as to think ivory grows on trees? I don't think so. It is quite simple: if they buy ivory, they support the butchering and extinction of elephants.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 12:16 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,300,838 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
While I am against wearing fur, that fur does certainly not come from elephants, whales/dolphins or great apes.
Sorry to say this in case you are East Asian, but the West is way ahead in this respect. If it weren't for the West there would not be any awareness let alone trade ban in the first place.

Your question is ridiculous. Are those 85% so stupid as to think ivory grows on trees? I don't think so. It is quite simple: if they buy ivory, they support the butchering and extinction of elephants.
Yeah, western countries killed thousands of elephants in the past. Now they got tired of it and started to criticize other countries, just like what they do in many other areas (pollution, low cost manufacturing etc). This seems to be something they are good at: they require every country to act like a rich developed country, criticizing them for doing what they themselves have done when they were developing - see how noble I am, you guys are all salvages!

And your logic is flawed yet you choose to ignore it. Maybe many of those Chinese meant they wouldn't mind having ivory products if the ivory is from elephants which died naturally? Plus by saying they want doesn't mean they actually would. I doube 15% of Chinese own anything ivory.

Of course you will argue the action itself encourages killing of elephants, true, but criticize those proachers, not the end consumers, many of whom probably have no idea of the situation of elephants. They didn't do anything illegal.

yes, the west is way ahead in protecting some animals. I wish they cared more about people's lives when they invaded other countries and slaughtered each other in those never ending wars.

The west holds absolutely no moral high ground in anything. Much of today's mess in the world is due to the west.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 12:18 PM
 
1,379 posts, read 1,819,205 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
While I am against wearing fur, that fur does certainly not come from elephants, whales/dolphins or great apes.
Sorry to say this in case you are East Asian, but the West is way ahead in this respect. If it weren't for the West there would not be any awareness let alone trade ban in the first place.

Your question is ridiculous. Are those 85% so stupid as to think ivory grows on trees? I don't think so. It is quite simple: if they buy ivory, they support the butchering and extinction of elephants.
Do you know who Douglas MacArthur is? He is the father of modern Japanese Whaling. Maybe you should blame him for whaling since Japan didn't really have a big whaling industry until he brought it back. BTW the Japanese find it hypocritical that the Icelanders, Faroe Islanders, and Norwegians get a pass while they are called "utterly ignorant, barbarian, and superstitious folks".

BTW attitudes like that which you espouse calling them "utterly ignorant, barbarian, and superstitious folks" is the reason why few Asians even listen to the West when it comes to animal rights and instead just ignore it. If you want them to change you might want to change your attitude first.

Last edited by X14Freak; 04-28-2014 at 12:28 PM..
 
Old 04-28-2014, 12:53 PM
 
1,379 posts, read 1,819,205 times
Reputation: 980
BTW, why are you blaming an entire ethnic group for the actions of a few? I wasn't aware that Chinese collectors represented 99.99% of all Chinese people nor was I aware that aging Japanese whalers represented 99.99% of all Japanese people. Also you better come up with better stats than 85% of all Chinese people will buy ivory because very few Chinese consumers have the money to buy real ivory.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 02:15 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,606 posts, read 19,382,716 times
Reputation: 8585
While the West has done a lot of crap in the past as well, we are talking about the present. And in the present we do not buy ivory stuff in Europe or the US anymore. In China the government is actually sponsoring the creation of new ivory carving academies while officially pretending to observe the ban.

Anyway, an interesting article from a respected source:
BBC News - Uncovering China's illegal ivory trade

Frankly, I don't care about the feelings of the Chinese or Japanese, elephants and whales are much more important to me than some political correctness or hurt feelings.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,459,175 times
Reputation: 4409
If it's any comfort, I also don't undertand why everytime someone points out that it is a stupid shortsighted idea that there is a huge industry out of exploiting something superficial, somebody points out something of the past that you, or nobody at present had any control over. I agree with you about the ivory. Do you understand supply and demand? Of course if you buy something and understand where it comes from (the face of elephants), you are partly responsible for its destruction.

You can't just say the west did it first so therefor it's not a problem. That's not an argument. These aren't animals that can keep up with somethng like this population wise. It's like you have all these 'THE ECONOMY > everything else' people who never stop to think about the consequences of something if they get a quick fix now.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,459,175 times
Reputation: 4409
Cue: bunch of people calling me hypocritical because I ate farmed fish today or wore shoes made in Vietnam. You either have to be in control of absolutely everything to support ecology or you're a hypocrit.
 
Old 04-28-2014, 03:23 PM
 
Location: West Coast of Europe
21,606 posts, read 19,382,716 times
Reputation: 8585
I guess it is obvious that I am not saying all Japanese or Chinese do this and that. It is like saying Germans are stiff, Spaniards are temperamental, etc. That doesn't mean it applies to each and every one of them.

When the Chinese say they need to protect the art of ivory carving, it is one of those cases where rituals and customs are like a prison one should simply leave behind. Ivory items always have blood on them, make no mistake. There is no decent way to obtain ivory. Elephants get very old, few die, so taking the tusks from a few naturally deceased, rotting elephant corpses lying around somewhere in Africa is no solution. Not to mention that elephants remember deceased elephants by the bones and tusks lying around, they are what graves and urns are to us. Elephants mourn and remember their relatives just like humans do. Thus we should not even take tusks from naturally deceased elephants.

If the Chinese think ivory carving is such a great art, why don't they develop an artificial material with similar properties? After all, it is about the art, right?
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