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Old 05-01-2014, 09:26 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,145 posts, read 23,656,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
I guess the mass immigration from the mainland is just the beginning. More parents from the mainland can afford overseas eduction for their kids. And a good percentage of these students will find a job there.
It's not even an example of wealth though--Chinese emigration is working class by a huge margin. The wealthier families sending their kids to school abroad is far and away the minority of Chinese immigrants.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:27 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,241,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
There are several factors involved. One is that Chinese emigration was generally later so has had less time to lose its identity.

Another was that they emigrated mostly to ethnically quite different places so it's very visible that they are different--you'll see a lot higher degree of assimilation in Thailand for example than in the UK.

Another is that Chinese emigration is actually hitting a faster pace in recent decades than before (nearly an explosion as there are pretty compelling factors for some people to leave China) which is different for most other ethnicities, so it's the most visible whereas immigration from Germany and Italian hasn't been that big dropped severely for almost a century now. So what you see is a large and growing population of first generation immigrants who are not going to be all that assimilated--it'll generally take about three generations for that to happen on average.

There's also an observation bias at play here: you might meet random Los Angelenos who are something like an eighth Chinese from about three generations back, you'll never know it because they've assimilated pretty completely (this is especially prevalent within the older generation of Chinese Caribbeans)--and since you don't see that, you assume that they just don't assimilate.
That's true. Like the Chinese in say Vietnam are not even very visible. I went to Cholon, Saigon's 'Chinatown' and I couldn't really tell it was a Chinatown.

Yep, although even here, Italians sort of maintain an identity...many will call themselves 'Italian', and are proud of Italian culture.etc. Still a lot of older Italians who speak Italian.etc, and many Italians refer to Anglo-Celtic Australians as 'Aussie' to differentiate them from 'wogs' or 'Italians.'

I think a surprising number of white and aboriginal Australians have a Chinese ancestor back in history. Even met a bloke who looked totally aboriginal with a Chinese last name (forget what it was) because his grandfather was Chinese.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:29 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 628,529 times
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Yes. But it is getting easier for the Chinese to study in US and then find a job there. When I studied in US 13 years ago, it was very difficult to get a student visa. but today, anyone who get admitted can get a visa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
It's not even an example of wealth though--Chinese emigration is working class by a huge margin. The wealthier families sending their kids to school abroad is far and away the minority of Chinese immigrants.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:34 AM
 
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But in Philipines, Malaysia or Indonisia where Chinese immigration is not a recent phenominon, Chinese retain its distinct identity. I have some friends from Philipines, who said that CHinese there do not marry non Chinese.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
There are several factors involved. One is that Chinese emigration was generally later so has had less time to lose its identity.

Another was that they emigrated mostly to ethnically quite different places so it's very visible that they are different--you'll see a lot higher degree of assimilation in Thailand for example than in the UK.

Another is that Chinese emigration is actually hitting a faster pace in recent decades than before (nearly an explosion as there are pretty compelling factors for some people to leave China) which is different for most other ethnicities, so it's the most visible whereas immigration from Germany and Italian hasn't been that big dropped severely for almost a century now. So what you see is a large and growing population of first generation immigrants who are not going to be all that assimilated--it'll generally take about three generations for that to happen on average.

There's also an observation bias at play here: you might meet random Los Angelenos who are something like an eighth Chinese from about three generations back, you'll never know it because they've assimilated pretty completely (this is especially prevalent within the older generation of Chinese Caribbeans)--and since you don't see that, you assume that they just don't assimilate.
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:37 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,145 posts, read 23,656,611 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
But in Philipines, Malaysia or Indonisia where Chinese immigration is not a recent phenominon, Chinese retain its distinct identity. I have some friends from Philipines, who said that CHinese there do not marry non Chinese.
Yes, did you try reading the entire thing I wrote?
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Old 05-01-2014, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,241,785 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
But in Philipines, Malaysia or Indonisia where Chinese immigration is not a recent phenominon, Chinese retain its distinct identity. I have some friends from Philipines, who said that CHinese there do not marry non Chinese.
Those cultures are more different from Chinese than other Southeast Asian cultures. I would say in the case of the Philippines and Indonesia that there has been quite a bit of integration/intermarriage, although most Indonesians with more Chinese ancestry tend to be more Christian rather than Muslim, although it could be those that do become Muslims more fully integrate and 'lose' that Chinese identity.

In Malaysia the Chinese generally do not marry Malays, largely because the government requires anyone who marries a Malay to convert to Islam. In fact, Malay identity is mostly dependent on being Muslim: if a Malay commits apostasy he or she loses those Bumiputra rights. My uncle married a Malay lady, although I don't know if he had to technically say he was a Muslim. He's non-religious.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:31 AM
 
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Things like this generally depends on how self-aware one is towards their Chinese heritage. I'd imagine that an interest in one's origin or the attachment towards it can depend on multiple factors like being different from others, raised in an environment where racial identity is prominent and clearly defined, exposure to the uniqueness of one's native culture or just the nature of self-seeking in general and wanting to know more.

Outward behaviour and practices may or may not properly reflect how attached certain people are towards their origin. I'm quite appreciative (positive rather than neutral) and interested in my own ancestry and heritage for instance, but have no interest in practising the culture whatsoever. I like what's good and care for what matters, and especially do not like practising something that I don't understand the meaning of. My attachment towards my origin is more abstract and more mental, that may sometimes translate to actions in the form of learning/visiting so to speak, and that's as far as it goes. And talking about things like this
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:47 AM
 
Location: East coast
613 posts, read 892,619 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I guess in the case of America, Canada and Australia, there is very little local culture, and even if there is, the Chinese think their own chinese is superior and therefore stick to it.

For example, can you even start to compare the diversity and sophistication of Chinese food with hamburgers and hotdogs? Can to compare thanksgiving and president days with all the traditional chinese holidays with thousands of years of history?

People choose something they think is better. Simple as that.

Also, no matter how many generations have passed and how "westernized" one thinks he is, in white people's eyes, they are always Chinese and will never be 100% American/Canadian/Australian.

American ice skater Michelle Kwan on many occasion had to say "she loves America" because no matter how many medals she won, America will always consider her as the "Asian girl". In the 2008 Beijing Olympic, a Vietnam Canadian won the first gold medal, but magazines like McLean put her at the bottom of the list when talking about medalists.

There is no point to trying to abandon one's Asian heritage/culture and pretend to be just "American" (or Canadian or whatever). You look different and you will always be viewed as the Asian guy.
Who speaks for all "white people", American, Canadian, Aussie or otherwise?

It's already pretty well accepted that any person of any race can be those nationalities, as they are all nations of immigrants. An immigrant or descendent of an immigrant from Europe is no less American than one from China or India, if they all have citizenship. Maybe a few people who are racial nationalists disagree, but I wouldn't count their opinion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
No, I mean even after generations of immigrantion, overseas Chinese can still identify themselves as Chinese. But for those germans, italians who came to USA, they normally loose their own identities. You can see Chinatowns in all major cities in the world. It is interesting to see this phenominen. In US, they are forming even bigger Chinatowns, like San Gabriel valley in LA, Flushing in NYC, both like a medium size city.
But that's new immigrants arriving and forming or living in American Chinatowns, not the older communities staying in the Chinatowns generation after generation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
There are several factors involved. One is that Chinese emigration was generally later so has had less time to lose its identity.

Another was that they emigrated mostly to ethnically quite different places so it's very visible that they are different--you'll see a lot higher degree of assimilation in Thailand for example than in the UK.

Another is that Chinese emigration is actually hitting a faster pace in recent decades than before (nearly an explosion as there are pretty compelling factors for some people to leave China) which is different for most other ethnicities, so it's the most visible whereas immigration from Germany and Italian hasn't been that big dropped severely for almost a century now. So what you see is a large and growing population of first generation immigrants who are not going to be all that assimilated--it'll generally take about three generations for that to happen on average.

There's also an observation bias at play here: you might meet random Los Angelenos who are something like an eighth Chinese from about three generations back, you'll never know it because they've assimilated pretty completely (this is especially prevalent within the older generation of Chinese Caribbeans)--and since you don't see that, you assume that they just don't assimilate.
Exactly. It's not that they are not assimilating, but that new arrivals are still coming in ongoing waves and replacing the older communities that have already assimilated.
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Old 05-01-2014, 11:51 AM
 
Location: East coast
613 posts, read 892,619 times
Reputation: 306
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
That's true. Like the Chinese in say Vietnam are not even very visible. I went to Cholon, Saigon's 'Chinatown' and I couldn't really tell it was a Chinatown.

Yep, although even here, Italians sort of maintain an identity...many will call themselves 'Italian', and are proud of Italian culture.etc. Still a lot of older Italians who speak Italian.etc, and many Italians refer to Anglo-Celtic Australians as 'Aussie' to differentiate them from 'wogs' or 'Italians.'

I think a surprising number of white and aboriginal Australians have a Chinese ancestor back in history. Even met a bloke who looked totally aboriginal with a Chinese last name (forget what it was) because his grandfather was Chinese.
That's because Italian immigration came earlier in the US than Australia, as was talked about in one of my threads. More people in Australia, percentage-wise have closer ties to Italian culture and speak Italian than Italian-Americans actually, I think was the general opinion.
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Old 05-01-2014, 12:44 PM
 
Location: San Francisco, California
1,953 posts, read 5,205,573 times
Reputation: 2294
many Hispanic people in California do not consider an asian born in the USA as an American, even if you told them your born in the US they still say your not American, they say Asia is over there your asian, etc

I guess they only consider caucasions as real Americans? lots of immigrants think that way, some countries dont grant citizenship to persons born in their country, so your still what you are by race / ethnicity to them
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