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Old 05-07-2014, 02:59 AM
 
1,011 posts, read 628,757 times
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MY GOODNESS. Do you even know when Tang dynasty is? that is more than 1000 years ago.

Wu dialect also has no similarity to Mandarin. Do you know that? Cantonese sounds totally different than Mandarin, do you know that? Why do you think Fujian is so special? If you lack knowledge about China, please read some books. Do not make some naive comments like this

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
The ancient statue of Baiyue/Minyue occupied present-day Fujian:

http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/6019/namviet200bc.jpg

Many words in the Min languages have pre-Chinese substrate, Austronesian/Austroasiatic/Tai-Kadai etc. The large-scale migrations from the Han, and Tang, diluted a lot of that, and Sinified the area, but the area was historically on the fringe of Chinese civilisation until the Tang dynasty.

If you hear Min it sounds nothing like Mandarin, closer to SEA languages...
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:09 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,244,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
MY GOODNESS. Do you even know when Tang dynasty is? that is more than 1000 years ago.

Wu dialect also has no similarity to Mandarin. Do you know that? Cantonese sounds totally different than Mandarin, do you know that? Why do you think Fujian is so special? If you lack knowledge about China, please read some books. Do not make some naive comments like this
I didn't say Fujian is more unique, but a lot with Yue that area has a pre-Chinese history. Either way this is more about Taiwan than Fujianese identity. Taiwanese identity is a separate thing, although Taiwanese, basically Minnan, happens to be a part of the pro-independence movement.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:41 AM
 
Location: American Expat
2,189 posts, read 4,715,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
China's life expectancy is higher than many developed nations. China has one of the best infrastructure in the world, much better than USA or EU countries. China has one of the best education system (check the PISA results each year, China consistently ranks No. 1)

Nominal GDP per capita is as misleading as it can get. A doctor visit costs only 2 USD while in USA it is 200 USD. A cab drive is about 2 USD in China, while in USA it is about 20 USD.

A family of 3 in China can get a decent life while their average GDP per capita is 6700 USD (20K USD for a family of 3). They can even hire a nanny.

If I remmeber correctly, China let only one city participate in PISA. And that was Shanghai, and only selected schools there. Botswana could do this too and be at the top.
Consistently ranks number 1 ? Wasn't that even the first year they 'participated' ?
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:43 AM
 
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you can pick any chinese city in the test. Students in other parts of China are more hardworking than in Shanghai or Beijing. And they normally score higher in these kinds of standard tests. In China's national college exam, Shanghai ranks at the bottom in terms of average scores.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glucorious View Post
If I remmeber correctly, China let only one city participate in PISA. And that was Shanghai, and only selected schools there. Botswana could do this too and be at the top.
Consistently ranks number 1 ? Wasn't that even the first year they 'participated' ?
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:47 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,357,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
I didn't say Fujian is more unique, but a lot with Yue that area has a pre-Chinese history. Either way this is more about Taiwan than Fujianese identity. Taiwanese identity is a separate thing, although Taiwanese, basically Minnan, happens to be a part of the pro-independence movement.
Yeah, one of my closest friends is Taiwanese and of Fujian descent, but considers herself Taiwanese. She speaks both Mandarin and Fujian, and is a supporter of Taiwanese independence, as is another friend who's of Manchurian descent and considers herself Taiwanese (her father is a diplomat and her grandfather was a general). I only know one Taiwanese who supports reintegration with mainland China on the PRC's terms, she's a Taiwanese-American ethnic Han from the Sichuan province and considers herself Chinese.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:54 AM
 
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All my chinese friends support one China

Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Yeah, one of my closest friends is Taiwanese and of Fujian descent, but considers herself Taiwanese. She speaks both Mandarin and Fujian, and is a supporter of Taiwanese independence, as is another friend who's of Manchurian descent and considers herself Taiwanese (her father is a diplomat and her grandfather was a general). I only know one Taiwanese who supports reintegration with mainland China on the PRC's terms, she's a Taiwanese-American ethnic Han from the Sichuan province and considers herself Chinese.
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Old 05-07-2014, 03:55 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,244,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Yeah, one of my closest friends is Taiwanese and of Fujian descent, but considers herself Taiwanese. She speaks both Mandarin and Fujian, and is a supporter of Taiwanese independence, as is another friend who's of Manchurian descent and considers herself Taiwanese (her father is a diplomat and her grandfather was a general). I only know one Taiwanese who supports reintegration with mainland China on the PRC's terms, she's a Taiwanese-American ethnic Han from the Sichuan province and considers herself Chinese.
Well Taiwanese are different from Taiwanese Americans. Taiwanese will of course better relate to being a Taiwanese living in Taiwan. My experience visiting Taiwan and hearing what some people had to say is largely what shaped my views. To me independence just makes the most sense, since they're already functioning as a state in all but name.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:54 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,357,013 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Well Taiwanese are different from Taiwanese Americans. Taiwanese will of course better relate to being a Taiwanese living in Taiwan. My experience visiting Taiwan and hearing what some people had to say is largely what shaped my views. To me independence just makes the most sense, since they're already functioning as a state in all but name.
Yeah, that was kind of my point...basically all Taiwanese I know, including those who consider themselves "Chinese," would rather see Taiwan independent since they realize there's basically no way that China will adopt Taiwanese politics, nor would it necessarily work on such a huge scale. Taiwanese-Americans, while often removed directly from the political issue by one or two generations, still generally support independence or have a pragmatic attitude that accepts the current status quo. For the most part in the US, the Taiwanese community melds with the greater Chinese American community, so there's more of a likelihood that they will adopt a stance of ambivalence towards the issue, or even take a pro-PRC stance, though again in my experience this is still not entirely likely. I've heard Taiwanese-Americans dig at mainlander-descended Chinese-Americans, and vice versa.

Regardless it's much more complex than some people are making it out to be.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,244,676 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Yeah, that was kind of my point...basically all Taiwanese I know, including those who consider themselves "Chinese," would rather see Taiwan independent since they realize there's basically no way that China will adopt Taiwanese politics, nor would it necessarily work on such a huge scale. Taiwanese-Americans, while often removed directly from the political issue by one or two generations, still generally support independence or have a pragmatic attitude that accepts the current status quo. For the most part in the US, the Taiwanese community melds with the greater Chinese American community, so there's more of a likelihood that they will adopt a stance of ambivalence towards the issue, or even take a pro-PRC stance, though again in my experience this is still not entirely likely. I've heard Taiwanese-Americans dig at mainlander-descended Chinese-Americans, and vice versa.

Regardless it's much more complex than some people are making it out to be.
Most Taiwanese are realistic...the most they can 'hope' for is a revolution in China. If not that, then at least continue the status quo. They seem to be doing alright. Independence for many would be the icing on the cake, but as long as things don't change (and who knows how long this situation will last) they are okay.

For sure...Have you heard of Janet Hsieh? She's Taiwanese American (a label she wears proudly, I'm not sure if she considers herself 'Chinese' in any way but she never calls herself that) and hosts 'Fun Taiwan' a travel show on TLC:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-QMCyoTMls

I think the US is sort of unusual in that it has a lot of Taiwanese who came in the 60s-80s, when immigration from the PRC was still low, so they would differ from more recent mainland immigrants. I'm sure many do have a strong Taiwanese pride.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:19 AM
 
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Taiwanese pride? from what? being a Japanese colony? or staying in a tiny island daydreaming about independance.

From my experience in the chinese community in US, most mainlanders are very confident about their national identity, while the taiwanese are rarely showing the same

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Most Taiwanese are realistic...the most they can 'hope' for is a revolution in China. If not that, then at least continue the status quo. They seem to be doing alright. Independence for many would be the icing on the cake, but as long as things don't change (and who knows how long this situation will last) they are okay.

For sure...Have you heard of Janet Hsieh? She's Taiwanese American (a label she wears proudly, I'm not sure if she considers herself 'Chinese' in any way but she never calls herself that) and hosts 'Fun Taiwan' a travel show on TLC:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-QMCyoTMls

I think the US is sort of unusual in that it has a lot of Taiwanese who came in the 60s-80s, when immigration from the PRC was still low, so they would differ from more recent mainland immigrants. I'm sure many do have a strong Taiwanese pride.
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