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Old 05-08-2014, 08:27 AM
 
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Also there are many westerners looking for jobs in China.

Chinese cities are too dense and air quality is a problem. A lot of British chose to immigrant to US. Did that say much about UK being a very backward country?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
People keep mentioning things like this- Chinese cities absolutely do not have better infrastructure or qol- especially not the qol! China is a developing country, which means that even the nicer cities are still quite a ways behind those in developed countries. I've been to Chinese cities many times as my wife is from there and all of her family lives back there- they live in a modern city there, but everywhere you look you can still tell you are in a DEVELOPING country where QOL and general living standards are not up to what they are here in the U.S. or other fully developed nations. It is a very stark difference, it is why many, many of my wife's relatives- especially the younger ones who have quite a bit of money- have moved away permanently to places like the U.S., Canada, and Australia. I met some of them at times when in China visiting, and they discussed this a lot, sure they love their country but won't hesitate to discuss all the reasons why the quality of life is so much better for them in these other places.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:28 AM
 
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at least on this forum, there are a lot of CHinese who can argue with you in English. Are you able to access any forums in China? can you get a balanced picture of CHina?


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Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
No, even if CNN is available to them, most of the "brainwashed" people on the other side in China only watch/listen to their local media which pumps mostly negative news about the U.S. and the west, so that is all they know. It goes both ways.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:40 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
People keep mentioning things like this- Chinese cities absolutely do not have better infrastructure or qol- especially not the qol! China is a developing country, which means that even the nicer cities are still quite a ways behind those in developed countries. I've been to Chinese cities many times as my wife is from there and all of her family lives back there- they live in a modern city there, but everywhere you look you can still tell you are in a DEVELOPING country where QOL and general living standards are not up to what they are here in the U.S. or other fully developed nations. It is a very stark difference, it is why many, many of my wife's relatives- especially the younger ones who have quite a bit of money- have moved away permanently to places like the U.S., Canada, and Australia. I met some of them at times when in China visiting, and they discussed this a lot, sure they love their country but won't hesitate to discuss all the reasons why the quality of life is so much better for them in these other places.
I agree with you. Even the richest Chinese city still looks like a developing country in many aspects. And overall, the typical quality of life is better in developed countries.

But it is not a black or white thing, and over the past years, I myself have given this a lot of thoughts. The vast majority of Chinese expats in the US, Canada and Australia live in the suburbs, or quasi-suburbs. Yes, they have nicer and bigger houses, cars and stuff, but are they really happier ?

QoL is not a set of objective criteria one can measure with numbers, as many rankings tend to do. Here in Canada, Burlington or Kingston, some small town with 200K people 1-2 hours from Toronto is ranked as the city with the highest QoL, but really? Why does one want to move to those dead quiet villages where nothing ever happens?

Two years ago I was in Chengdu, and at 10pm on a Tuesday night, I saw hundrends of people on the street. Stores and food stands were open. People were eating, shopping, entertaining, talking and laughing not in the suburban large house watching TV with a dog at their feet. I can't judge which is better but I am often frustated by how quiet and uneventful Toronto is - the street is always empty at 9pm Sunday night and I live in the downtown core! North America and Australia DO have higher QoL of life, if being extremely boring is not a factor. For someone who prefers a highly urban life with more to do, those QoL means abslutely nothing because they matter only to those who have 3 kids and care nothing about the outside world except for their a large house in the suburb, and what the kids have done in school.

Last edited by botticelli; 05-08-2014 at 08:56 AM..
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:43 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
No, even if CNN is available to them, most of the "brainwashed" people on the other side in China only watch/listen to their local media which pumps mostly negative news about the U.S. and the west, so that is all they know. It goes both ways.
You only need to install a small app on your phone/PC in order to have access to everything banned, from facebook to New York Times.

Trust me, the Chinese are not stupid. If they want to get a hold on something banned (including information), they can.

And don't believe for a second that most Chinese citizens hate the US and love their prefect home country. Most educated Chinese have as much to complain about China as a grumpy Grandpa about Uncle Sam.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,704 posts, read 4,688,176 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
Also there are many westerners looking for jobs in China.

Chinese cities are too dense and air quality is a problem. A lot of British chose to immigrant to US. Did that say much about UK being a very backward country?
Those westerners are high end business people looking for temporary, high dollar posts in China, just as they often do in many other countries in the world. It is an adventure for them, and something to put on their resume that they headed up x department in the China (or Russia, or Thailand, or Mexico, etc.) branch for 3 years. That is a completely different situation than the many "regular" folks from China who come to the west looking for a better life.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:49 AM
 
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I live in Switzerland, one of the richest country in the world and with much much better infrastructure than USA or UK. I have many chinese friends who finished their study and went back to China. I always miss my life in Shanghai. If not for the job, I would definitely return.

if you can make good money, a lot of Chinese expats would go back. The quality of life in China's first tier city is not low even by western standards. All my chinese friends here would tell how much they enjoy when they have a vacation back in CHina and feel sad when they have to return to Switzerland.



Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree with you. Even the richest Chinese city still looks like a developing country in many aspects. And overall, the typical quality of life is better in developed countries.

But it is a black or white thing, and over the past years, I myself have given this a lot of thoughts. The vast majority of Chinese expats in the US, Canada and Australia live in the suburbs, or quasi-suburbs. Yes, they have nicer and bigger houses, cars and stuff, but are they really happier ?

QoL is not a set of objective criteria one can measure with numbers, as many rankings tend to do. Here in Canada, Burlington or Kingston, some small town with 200K people 1-2 hours from Toronto is ranked as the city with the highest QoL, but really? Why does one want to move to those dead quiet villages where nothing ever happens?

Two years ago I was in Chengdu, and at 10pm on a Tuesday night, I saw hundrends of people on the street. Stores and food stands were open. People were eating, shopping, entertaining, talking and laughing not in the suburban large house watching TV with a dog at their feet. I can't judge which is better but I am often frustated by how quiet and uneventful Toronto is - the street is always empty at 9pm Sunday night and I live in the downtown core! North America and Australia DO have higher QoL of life, if being extremely boring is not a factor. For someone who prefers a highly urban life with more to do, those QoL means abslutely nothing because they matter only to those who have 3 kids and care nothing about the outside world except for their a large house in the suburb, and what the kids have done in school.
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Old 05-08-2014, 08:51 AM
 
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Right. Chinese still prefer city living. That's why most Chinese americans still live in place like NYC, LA or SF. These cities feel like China as compared to the rest of US


Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree with you. Even the richest Chinese city still looks like a developing country in many aspects. And overall, the typical quality of life is better in developed countries.

But it is a black or white thing, and over the past years, I myself have given this a lot of thoughts. The vast majority of Chinese expats in the US, Canada and Australia live in the suburbs, or quasi-suburbs. Yes, they have nicer and bigger houses, cars and stuff, but are they really happier ?

QoL is not a set of objective criteria one can measure with numbers, as many rankings tend to do. Here in Canada, Burlington or Kingston, some small town with 200K people 1-2 hours from Toronto is ranked as the city with the highest QoL, but really? Why does one want to move to those dead quiet villages where nothing ever happens?

Two years ago I was in Chengdu, and at 10pm on a Tuesday night, I saw hundrends of people on the street. Stores and food stands were open. People were eating, shopping, entertaining, talking and laughing not in the suburban large house watching TV with a dog at their feet. I can't judge which is better but I am often frustated by how quiet and uneventful Toronto is - the street is always empty at 9pm Sunday night and I live in the downtown core! North America and Australia DO have higher QoL of life, if being extremely boring is not a factor. For someone who prefers a highly urban life with more to do, those QoL means abslutely nothing because they matter only to those who have 3 kids and care nothing about the outside world except for their a large house in the suburb, and what the kids have done in school.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:01 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,315,662 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by gen2010 View Post
Right. Chinese still prefer city living. That's why most Chinese americans still live in place like NYC, LA or SF. These cities feel like China as compared to the rest of US
A friend of mine who has a PhD in computer science just quit his $150K Silicon Valley job and went back to Shenzhen to work. His reason was the Bay area was "too boring".

Another after finished his MBA at Kellogg went to Shanghai and never looked back.

With rising opportunities and a more energetic urban life, more and more Chinese are doing this. But admittedly, most are still staying for obvious reasons.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
2,704 posts, read 4,688,176 times
Reputation: 3691
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I agree with you. Even the richest Chinese city still looks like a developing country in many aspects. And overall, the typical quality of life is better in developed countries.

But it is a black or white thing, and over the past years, I myself have given this a lot of thoughts. The vast majority of Chinese expats in the US, Canada and Australia live in the suburbs, or quasi-suburbs. Yes, they have nicer and bigger houses, cars and stuff, but are they really happier ?

QoL is not a set of objective criteria one can measure with numbers, as many rankings tend to do. Here in Canada, Burlington or Kingston, some small town with 200K people 1-2 hours from Toronto is ranked as the city with the highest QoL, but really? Why does one want to move to those dead quiet villages where nothing ever happens?

Two years ago I was in Chengdu, and at 10pm on a Tuesday night, I saw hundrends of people on the street. Stores and food stands were open. People were eating, shopping, entertaining, talking and laughing not in the suburban large house watching TV with a dog at their feet. I can't judge which is better but I am often frustated by how quiet and uneventful Toronto is - the street is always empty at 9pm Sunday night and I live in the downtown core! North America and Australia DO have higher QoL of life, if being extremely boring is not a factor. For someone who prefers a highly urban life with more to do, those QoL means abslutely nothing because they matter only to those who have 3 kids and care nothing about the outside world except for their a large house in the suburb, and what the kids have done in school.
Yeah, that is a discussion even here with residents/citizens within the U.S., you have those who prefer suburbs and those who prefer more urban areas and the lifestyle that goes with them, lots of arguments even in other sections of the forum here about that and which is better. I think a lot of people don't find the suburbs boring if they are not into the bar/pub, party type of lifestyle where they always need lots of things going on. My wife (and I) the suburbs, part of what she (and her visiting family from China) loves about where we live (typical suburb, about a half hour outside of downtown Seattle) is how peaceful it is, how visually appealing it is- nicely manicured lawns, lots of trees, housing developments all (mostly) look really nice, just a very clean, tidy look and feel to it all.
So that particular aspect of it is definitely a matter of preference, and I know regardless of the lower living standards one has in China, that they may still not like the suburban lifestyle here if they prefer to be "in the middle" of the action as one would be in a dense urban area.
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Old 05-08-2014, 09:04 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,315,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm31828 View Post
Those westerners are high end business people looking for temporary, high dollar posts in China, just as they often do in many other countries in the world. It is an adventure for them, and something to put on their resume that they headed up x department in the China (or Russia, or Thailand, or Mexico, etc.) branch for 3 years. That is a completely different situation than the many "regular" folks from China who come to the west looking for a better life.
True, but there are quite many who truly love life in China and don't want to live.
A former boss of mine move to Shanghai from LA 10 years ago and never intended to go back to her "quiet suburban life in Monterey Park doing nothing but raising kids". Another, in his late 50s, have done business in China for more than a decade and is loving all the fun Shanghai offers that his Ohio hometown can't.
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