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Old 05-22-2014, 12:42 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Cultural revolution is taught in history class, so all Chinese students know it. Not to mention their parents all experienced it. The textbook explicitly says Mao was responsible for that.

However, it is hard to say how much of the truth is revealed.
Heck a lot of their parents and grandparents were probably even red guards. Probably not the type of thing of you want to keep youthful rebellion in check!
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:31 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Cultural revolution is taught in history class, so all Chinese students know it. Not to mention their parents all experienced it. The textbook explicitly says Mao was responsible for that.

However, it is hard to say how much of the truth is revealed.
I think what the textbooks say is Mao was "used" by the gangs during the cultural revolution, which is a big fat lie.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Well the massacre simply didn't keep the gigantic portrait of Mao from being pasted on the wall of the Forbidden City.

I'm more interested in whether they know anything about Tiananmen incident or not tbqh.Not that Cultural Revolution isn't important,it is,but Tiananmen is far more recent,and actually more influential,in some ways.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I think what the textbooks say is Mao was "used" by the gangs during the cultural revolution, which is a big fat lie.
More like he started them with good intentions but the Red Guards started to run amok, which is actually fairly close to the truth (though whether the premise of his intentions were good at their core is another discussion). It's almost like the Tea Party, except that the Tea Party only wishes they had the fortitude of the Red Guards: a grassroots political party that supports a major politician and boosts them to prominence. The politician certainly is more than happy to ride the wave of support, but for perhaps alturistic reasons and doesn't see the coming tide of puritanical zealotry. by the time that wave happens they either ride it or stand in opposition to it, and look like hypocrites as the same people who put them in power destroy them.
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Old 05-22-2014, 08:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
More like he started them with good intentions but the Red Guards started to run amok, which is actually fairly close to the truth (though whether the premise of his intentions were good at their core is another discussion). It's almost like the Tea Party, except that the Tea Party only wishes they had the fortitude of the Red Guards: a grassroots political party that supports a major politician and boosts them to prominence. The politician certainly is more than happy to ride the wave of support, but for perhaps alturistic reasons and doesn't see the coming tide of puritanical zealotry. by the time that wave happens they either ride it or stand in opposition to it, and look like hypocrites as the same people who put them in power destroy them.
it is hardly likely.
Mao had almost absolute authority at that time. Nothing can happen without its explicit or implicit permission. All the atrocity should be attributed to him.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:04 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Well the massacre simply didn't keep the gigantic portrait of Mao from being pasted on the wall of the Forbidden City..
I totally agree. It is just a disgrace to put the portait of an oppressive tyrant on the wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I'm more interested in whether they know anything about Tiananmen incident or not tbqh.Not that Cultural Revolution isn't important,it is,but Tiananmen is far more recent,and actually more influential,in some ways.
People know more or less what happened.
Although given the circumstances, I think the government did what it had to do. If the violent demonstration hadn't be crushed, China may experience a long period of instability and may even become a puppet regime of the West.

There is no point of having democracy if you quality of life can't be improved.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:24 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I totally agree. It is just a disgrace to put the portait of an oppressive tyrant on the wall.



People know more or less what happened.
Although given the circumstances, I think the government did what it had to do. If the violent demonstration hadn't be crushed, China may experience a long period of instability and may even become a puppet regime of the West.

There is no point of having democracy if you quality of life can't be improved.
First of all,the demonstration was hardly violent.People were sitting on the ground,some went for a hunger strike,but there wasn't any real violence until the army started killing the students.

And honestly,it was not like the movement would totally overthrow the regime.The ideal plan was for the CCP to accept their demands of democratization,we can't know what'd have happened if the CCP actually accepted their thoughts,maybe it'd have experienced a long period of instability,or maybe it could've done pretty well.Who knows?Maybe a gradual reform could've done the tricks.

Even if we all agree on that democracy could only destroy China,or wouldn't do any good at very least(I agree with this,China is in no position of accepting democracy right now.Even in Taiwan,with merely 23 million of population,most people are still totally illiterate in terms of democracy and civil liberty),killing the unarmed citizens of its own was not what "the government had to do".
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:43 AM
 
Location: NYC
2,806 posts, read 3,043,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Even if we all agree on that democracy could only destroy China,or wouldn't do any good at very least(I agree with this,China is in no position of accepting democracy right now.Even in Taiwan,with merely 23 million of population,most people are still totally illiterate in terms of democracy and civil liberty),killing the unarmed citizens of its own was not what "the government had to do".
People always get the government they deserve. This can be said for all societies.
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Old 05-22-2014, 09:51 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
People always get the government they deserve. This can be said for all societies.
So true.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
First of all,the demonstration was hardly violent.People were sitting on the ground,some went for a hunger strike,but there wasn't any real violence until the army started killing the students.
it was so in the beginning, until the demonstrators were used by others with particular agendas.
The Chinese government cherishes stability than anything else, and they wouldn't just go out killing student demonstrators sitting quietly on the streets.

I was too young too know everything but many forces were in play at that time, although likely usually, west media likes to describle it as a simple "CCP kills peaceful demonstrators" story, which is hardly the whole truth.

Like I said, I believe the government did the least worst thing for the country at that time. The West obviously didn't resist insitigating just like what they did to Ukraine in their imaginart ideological war. Fortunately the central government had the gut to make a quick decision and put the country on the right track. How the world sees it is of less importance although it will haunt for a very long time. In the end, it is the Chinese people who have to live in China, not those foreigners who cry democracy for China.
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