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Old 06-05-2014, 06:43 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,303 posts, read 3,405,360 times
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFZhQ4u2Cbg

I'm not sure how "authentic" this is, but it's sort of disturbing to watch ( especially that teenager). To watch a kid joining up to fight for a cause that would more or less turn women into baby factories hug and showing affection for his sister is sort of eery. That kid should be in school. One would also think that deep down inside, he hopes that his sister lives a self-fulfilled, independent life.

What concerns me the most is how easily people seem to get caught up in this. I'll give Islam some credit, no other faith can produce "hardcore", fatalist mofos like this.

This is also the reason why I believe why Islam hasn't "modernized" like the other Abrahamic faiths. The conversation always gets hijacked by the most violent, authoritarian, and backward of the bunch and the voices of moderates either get drowned out or silenced.

Last edited by TylerJAX; 06-05-2014 at 07:45 PM..
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Old 06-10-2014, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,543 posts, read 3,120,855 times
Reputation: 3375
That video is actually sad. The cause that kid is fighting for is basically going to enslave his sister. There is no side in Syria that you can support. It is devil versus devil.

I think they should all convert to buddhism or paganism and be secular....but that is a dream world.
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Old 06-11-2014, 04:29 AM
 
Location: CT, New England
678 posts, read 652,831 times
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Define modernization. Do you mean Westernization; to please the Western World? Islam doesn't need any modernization. It's timeless. It blends in with the culture of the region it resides. Considering the name is derived from peace, it doesn't take much common sense to realize it's being corrupted by people for their own use. If it wasn't religion, it's money, power, take your pick.

In a war ridden country for some time, you're gonna see atrocities like this, unfortunately. Vietnam in the 70s come to mind. However, to blame a religion for a population of just over 22 million (Not all are Muslims, by the way. It's a 75/25 split) is quite a stretch. Civil wars gives rise to factions like these, and when they're secretly supposed by various government across the world, it fuels the fire. Can't ignore American intervention with Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s. Now, in 2014, with globalization, it's much easier to push selfish agendas.

The other is media portrayal. If you live in the West, you realize people only scope in on the negatives regarding Islam. Which is why you might think extremist are hijacking the religion. They are such a tiny, tiny, tiny minority, they don't size up. Besides, it's not the religion, but the fact that many people are uneducated and illiterate; out there for their own greed. Certainly if all of Islam was bad, you'd have a firestorm across the world (it wouldn't have grown to such lengths to begin with), but, my suggestion is that unless you've seen it with your own eyes, be weary of what the media portrays. It's unfortunate Islam doesn't get its recognition for the contributions it has made in the world and still does. :/

Converting to Buddhism or paganism won't solve anything. There are violent Buddhists, you know? Well, I don't think anyone that acts on violence represents their faith, but for the sake of discussion.
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Old 06-11-2014, 11:57 AM
 
9,967 posts, read 14,648,307 times
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I have future in-laws in Syria(my fiancee's father immigrated from Syria in the 60s). A lot of people there are just trying to survive and are taking no part in the Civil War--and for the most part are just trying to avoid getting killed and just go about their lives. Most Syrians aren't religious fundementalists--nor are all supporters of Assad. I haven't travelled there myself, but my fiancee said that when she visited in last before the war broke out in 2010, there were a lot of people who seemed fairly secular(much less so than the Arab Gulf States). Her own family members barely paid lip service to Ramadan at that point. As well though as many Syrians don't like the regime, there's people though that see the Assad regime as a stablizing force(especially areas along the coast and among Christians) , because they've managed to keep peace and things safe in those areas, and they don't trust a lot of the rebels. Likewise on my fiancees family side all over the world(many relatives have immigrated in the last 40 years) there's people who are in favor of the rebels because they hate Assad's regime and what he's done to places like Aleppo and Homs--even if they don't like the Islamcist groups fighting(who are mainly supported by the Saudis--and have a lot of foreign fighters who aren't even Syrian)--and most of her relatives aren't even truly Muslims at this point.

So it's not so cut and dried as "devil vs. devil", a lot of people are just trying to survive over there and a lot of the groups fighting together are sort of strange bedfellows. At this point it might be too late for suppport for the more moderate nationalistic Syrian rebel groups to matter much. If the Assad regime hadn't cracked down so harshly on what started as a small protest in Daraa years ago, this might have been all avoided. Bashar Al-Assad though is just another tyrant just like his father--family run-dictatorship dynasties have trouble dealing with any sort of dissent, which is why the original reaction of shooting unarmed protesters led to this uprising.
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Old 06-13-2014, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Earth
4,543 posts, read 3,120,855 times
Reputation: 3375
Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureTown View Post
Define modernization. Do you mean Westernization; to please the Western World? Islam doesn't need any modernization. It's timeless. It blends in with the culture of the region it resides. Considering the name is derived from peace, it doesn't take much common sense to realize it's being corrupted by people for their own use. If it wasn't religion, it's money, power, take your pick.

In a war ridden country for some time, you're gonna see atrocities like this, unfortunately. Vietnam in the 70s come to mind. However, to blame a religion for a population of just over 22 million (Not all are Muslims, by the way. It's a 75/25 split) is quite a stretch. Civil wars gives rise to factions like these, and when they're secretly supposed by various government across the world, it fuels the fire. Can't ignore American intervention with Soviet invasion of Afghanistan in the 80s. Now, in 2014, with globalization, it's much easier to push selfish agendas.

The other is media portrayal. If you live in the West, you realize people only scope in on the negatives regarding Islam. Which is why you might think extremist are hijacking the religion. They are such a tiny, tiny, tiny minority, they don't size up. Besides, it's not the religion, but the fact that many people are uneducated and illiterate; out there for their own greed. Certainly if all of Islam was bad, you'd have a firestorm across the world (it wouldn't have grown to such lengths to begin with), but, my suggestion is that unless you've seen it with your own eyes, be weary of what the media portrays. It's unfortunate Islam doesn't get its recognition for the contributions it has made in the world and still does. :/

Converting to Buddhism or paganism won't solve anything. There are violent Buddhists, you know? Well, I don't think anyone that acts on violence represents their faith, but for the sake of discussion.
I would take money and power. With that you don't get the sharia and I can still have an italian hoagie. Islam does need modernization. Its not timeless. Its from the dark ages and that's where it belongs. you don't see christians cutting off heads now a days and having child marriages.

islam means submission unless you mean peace through submission. It does not blend with the culture of the region. Its enslaves and erases it. Take Iran, afghanistan, and pakistan, the rest of central asia as examples. Iran was once zohorastrian. They are almost extinct. The parees had to flee to india to escape persecution from the muslims. There is no trace of zohorastianism, buddhism, and hinduism in afghanistan. They are all dead. Pakistan and bangladesh barely have any Hindus left because they kept getting raped and their heads chopped off.

If america didn't need revenge for vietnam, the soviets should have stayed in afghanistan. They neutered islam in central asia and this was probably a good thing. Pakistan made jihadis and now it bites them in butt. Red China supported the paks and now jihad is biting the red dragon. I see no good in emulating a medieval Bedouin. He had a consummate relationship with a 9 year old girl. Invading Saracens probably raped and enslaved your ancestors because they were kafirs. Why do you bow down 5 times a day to the Bedouins?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deezus View Post
I have future in-laws in Syria(my fiancee's father immigrated from Syria in the 60s). A lot of people there are just trying to survive and are taking no part in the Civil War--and for the most part are just trying to avoid getting killed and just go about their lives. Most Syrians aren't religious fundementalists--nor are all supporters of Assad. I haven't travelled there myself, but my fiancee said that when she visited in last before the war broke out in 2010, there were a lot of people who seemed fairly secular(much less so than the Arab Gulf States). Her own family members barely paid lip service to Ramadan at that point. As well though as many Syrians don't like the regime, there's people though that see the Assad regime as a stablizing force(especially areas along the coast and among Christians) , because they've managed to keep peace and things safe in those areas, and they don't trust a lot of the rebels. Likewise on my fiancees family side all over the world(many relatives have immigrated in the last 40 years) there's people who are in favor of the rebels because they hate Assad's regime and what he's done to places like Aleppo and Homs--even if they don't like the Islamcist groups fighting(who are mainly supported by the Saudis--and have a lot of foreign fighters who aren't even Syrian)--and most of her relatives aren't even truly Muslims at this point.

So it's not so cut and dried as "devil vs. devil", a lot of people are just trying to survive over there and a lot of the groups fighting together are sort of strange bedfellows. At this point it might be too late for suppport for the more moderate nationalistic Syrian rebel groups to matter much. If the Assad regime hadn't cracked down so harshly on what started as a small protest in Daraa years ago, this might have been all avoided. Bashar Al-Assad though is just another tyrant just like his father--family run-dictatorship dynasties have trouble dealing with any sort of dissent, which is why the original reaction of shooting unarmed protesters led to this uprising.
Assad is still a devil since he gets his support from Iran and Putin. Otherwise, I would support that side in the suit and tie then a mullah in robes. The Baath party is generally secular. He was probably even close to peace with Israel before the arab spring. All he wanted was the golan heights.
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Old 06-20-2014, 02:17 AM
 
Location: CT, New England
678 posts, read 652,831 times
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LOL! Dude, where do you get your information from? Have you actually opened the Qu'ran and read it yourself with an open mind? And I'm not talking about one where it's terribly translated.

I didn't know you had a degree in Islamic law. You sure know plenty to make baseless assumptions. As a non-Muslim you can still have your Italian hoagie. You have yours rights and freedom and are not obligated to follow an Islamic life. I know. it's shocking...

Zoroastrian and Iranian culture are different things, I hope you know. Zoroastrianism didn't die overnight in Iran, nor did Islam become the majority after an invasion. It took over 300 years for Islam to settle in strong in that region. It was a gradual process. In the midst of that, there were conflicts with empires from the West of Persia. And while I don't deny force conversions have happened by the abuse of some empires (Safavid comes to mind), many Iranians who converted to Islam did it for various reasons. Regarding culture, if that was the case, Persian influence in Islam would be nonexistent. In fact, many of the scholars of the Islamic Golden Age Persian cultured flourished after Islam arrived in Iran (Central Asia, really, considering most spoke some form of Persian in that region). I honestly don't know where you're getting your information from. Ever heard of Rumi? Guess where's he from? Did you also know he came from a family line of Islamic judges? Persians revere him for his poetry; Persian culture was very much thriving when Islam arrived in Iran.

As for your last paragraph? Umm....what? Dude, I'm sorry, but, I think we're talking about different religions at this point. What you tell me is very foreign at this point. There's just waaaaay too much misinformation for me to not laugh about.
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Old 06-20-2014, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,303 posts, read 3,405,360 times
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Modernization =/ Westernization. You could call Islam timeless, I would describe executing homosexuals and "apostates" as being rather medieval.
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Old 06-20-2014, 06:47 PM
 
Location: CT, New England
678 posts, read 652,831 times
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Islam is timeless, which is why it's survived in its original form to this extent and is still relevant. What you dictate about homosexuals and apostates are people judging others for sins and carrying out punishment in the name of God. If you actually opened up the Holy Qur'an, it says that man (and woman) cannot judge another being for their sins. Instead, we are suggested to hide it.

Homosexuality is not condemned in Islam, the act of homosexuality is. And execution, if I recall correctly is only when someone engages in a sexual act out in the open (like a park) with four witnesses present to testify against the people committing the act. If you can gather up all that, then execution is an option, but not the default. It is better to forgive.

All in all, you're taking people's actions who claim to be following Islam as Islam, but the only source of Islamic law is the Qu'ran and the Hadith. People are fallible, it's unfortunate the media in the West labels as every wrong doing in the name of Islam, and it is unfortunate that some people do this stuff as well. Taliban in Afghanistan are smart (In a terrible way). They use the name of Islam to oppress, but, these people don't know the basics of Islam to begin with. Can you really call someone a Muslim who doesn't even know the meaning of Islam?

There are no nations in this world that actually follow the Sharia, even if they claim to. All these "Muslim" governments are corrupted by people with their own agenda, and it usually doesn't involve the good of the common people.
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Old 06-20-2014, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Jersey
2,303 posts, read 3,405,360 times
Reputation: 2039
You can do all the mental gymnastics you want; but it isn't the West saying these things are done in the name of Islam, it's Muslims themselves. Perhaps you should take a trip to Saudi Arabia, Iran, Sudan, northern Nigeria, NW Pakistan, or the Iraq-Syria border and start telling your brothers that they have gone astray.
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Old 06-20-2014, 10:53 PM
 
Location: CT, New England
678 posts, read 652,831 times
Reputation: 252
Actually, many of them don't say in the name of Islam, they just get branded as such by the media. Most do it for power/control, really. Religion, whichever one the majority follows, will be used against the people. Either way, to say that Islam preaches violence is buying into the Islamophobia the West spews out.
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