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Old 06-18-2014, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,284,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
It does seem strange to see Indonesia spread out the way it is and sharing some islands with Malaysia.

I'm headed to bali for 2 weeks in September so trying to understand Indonesia more. They Muslims here seem to be more tolerant of others than most other countries with Muslim majority.
Bali isn't that representative of Indonesia, it's majority Hindu, for one, but it probably gives some idea of how Java was before the spread of Islam.
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Old 06-18-2014, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tall Traveler View Post
It does seem strange to see Indonesia spread out the way it is and sharing some islands with Malaysia.

I'm headed to bali for 2 weeks in September so trying to understand Indonesia more. They Muslims here seem to be more tolerant of others than most other countries with Muslim majority.
The border of malaysia and indonesia is as simple as british malaya and dutch east indies, very simple.

Cool, but if you want to discover real indonesia bali is not enough, bali is just part of indonesia that maintains its hindu custom, and 2 weeks wont be enough to get a taste of the whole country. The islamic-hindu\buddhist practices that is still maintained in java (this is due to the growth of islam which was spreaded by mixing hindu practice and myth) or the ancient temples of java or remnant of colonial empire or tribal villages in east indonesia or raja ampat marine park etc etc there is just too much to miss. You only get a glimpse of what is tiny part of indonesia by visiting bali.

I would say indonesian muslim is among the most tolerant but radical groups also exist, and religious sharia based in aceh are very bad. But during your travel you wont even feel a thing from these issue and the population are generally open to foreigners.

Last edited by Goshio22; 06-18-2014 at 07:00 AM..
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Old 06-18-2014, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
The border of malaysia and indonesia is as simple as british malaya and dutch east indies, very simple.

Cool, but if you want to discover real indonesia bali is not enough, bali is just part of indonesia that maintains its hindu custom, and 2 weeks wont be enough to get a taste of the whole country. The islamic-hindu\buddhist practices that is still maintained in java (this is due to the growth of islam which was spreaded by mixing hindu practice and myth) or the ancient temples of java or remnant of colonial empire or tribal villages in east indonesia or raja ampat marine park etc etc there is just too much to miss. You only get a glimpse of what is tiny part of indonesia by visiting bali.

I would say indonesian muslim is among the most tolerant but radical groups also exist, and religious sharia based in aceh are very bad. But during your travel you wont even feel a thing from these issue and the population are generally open to foreigners.
Would you recommend a tour if travelling to Java and you don't speak Indonesian? What about Lombok, Komodo, Flores? Would you recommend anti-malarials?
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Originally Posted by The Postman View Post
Would you recommend a tour if travelling to Java and you don't speak Indonesian? What about Lombok, Komodo, Flores? Would you recommend anti-malarials?
Its not hard to get local guides to get you travelling, indonesian who dont speak english will also try their best to help you. People travel to thailand where english standard is as bad in the countryside, but they're still fine. Lombok is like bali, lots of english speaker and komodos are full of guides and locals with basic english. But flores might be tough to commnicate.

As for anti-malarial dont think its such a big issue but you do have to be aware of the issue, when travelling to jungle area just get anti-insect cream.

Last edited by Goshio22; 06-18-2014 at 10:56 AM..
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Old 06-18-2014, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Its not hard to get local guides to get you travelling, indonesian who dont speak english will also try their best to help you. People travel to thailand where english standard is as bad in the countryside, but they they're still find. Lombok is like bali, lots of english speaker and komodos are full of guides and locals with basic english. But flores might be tough to commnicate.

As for anti-malarial dont think its such a big issue but you do have to be aware of the issue, when travelling to jungle area just get anti-insect cream.
My taxi driver to the airport was from Flores. I could tell immediately because of his features - like Papuans, dark skin, distinctive nose, curly hair, and the fact he wore a cross around his neck. I asked him, 'are you Balinese?' On the presumptions he was not.

Yes, that's good. I feel familiar with Indo culture, too. Next trip will probably be to Java, Komodo, Lombok...another trip will be to Sumatra.
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
It is arguable that Majapahit is just a faint propaganda of nationalism, the empire never truly ruled the archipelago, and there is a lot of proof for that. Just compare the ruins of Bagan and Trowulan, it is through the advancement level of cities that advanced civilization are often mirrored. Majapahit is respected kingdom of the archipelago for sure but its rule were mainly in Central-East Java, Madura and Bali only.

Srivijaya ruled Sumatra, West to Central Java and Eastern part of Borneo, but never the whole archipelago. Srivijaya is much more appealing when it comes to evidence of glory, such as ruins scattered throughout central Java during the times of Sailendra's Srivijaya. In Sumatra, unlike Java's richness in volcanic stones however they didn't build anything since most of the settlements are surrounded by vast rainforest and their structures are mainly made out of woods. But atleast the evidence of Srivijaya's existence and glory left marks outside of Indonesia in places such as Thailand and India.
So long time ago Indonesia and Malaysia were the same nation back there right?

I am curious, what part of the history that make it divine into what is Malaysia and Indonesia today?
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Old 06-18-2014, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mien View Post
So long time ago Indonesia and Malaysia were the same nation back there right?

I am curious, what part of the history that make it divine into what is Malaysia and Indonesia today?
Malaya and Sumatra.etc was ruled by Sultanates when it was colonised by the Dutch and British. The 1824 Anglo-Dutch treaty divided British Malaya and the Dutch East Indies.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:11 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mien View Post
So long time ago Indonesia and Malaysia were the same nation back there right?

I am curious, what part of the history that make it divine into what is Malaysia and Indonesia today?
Not necesarily the same nation, since the control of the territory of srivijaya never reached eastern indonesia. While majapahit have been said to temporarily attacked and occupied temasek (singapore) in order to rid the fleeing prince of palembang who then founded malacca. Malaya in majapahit era already started malacca sultanate, to avoid further offensive stances they decided to pay some tributes to the kingdom.

Malaysian Malays are related to sumatrans and borneo (the Indonesian Malays, Bugis, Minang, Batak, Aceh who are called "Malays" in their term), before their migration to malaya it was more to their relative in north, there are tiny javanese migration there that brought minor javanese culture but it wasnt that much to be called related. As for bali, madura and eastern indonesia, they're totally not related to Malaysians.

Malaysia basically is british malaya and borneo, except brunei. Indonesia is simply another nation formed by taking all territory that is united by dutch east indies, nothing on historical kingdoms.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:15 AM
 
Location: Melbourne, Australia
9,781 posts, read 16,284,331 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Not necesarily the same nation, since the control of the territory of srivijaya never reached eastern indonesia. While majapahit have been said to temporarily attacked and occupied temasek (singapore) in order to rid the fleeing prince of palembang who then founded malacca. Malaya in majapahit era already started malacca sultanate, to avoid further offensive stances they decided to pay some tributes to the kingdom.

Malaysian Malays are related to sumatrans and borneo (the Indonesian Malays, Bugis, Minang, Batak, Aceh who are called "Malays" in their term), before their migration to malaya it was more to their relative in north, there are tiny javanese migration there that brought minor javanese culture but it wasnt that much to be called related. As for bali, madura and eastern indonesia, they're totally not related to Malaysians.

Malaysia basically is british malaya and borneo, except brunei. Indonesia is simply another nation formed by taking all territory that is united by dutch east indies, nothing on historical kingdoms.
Not sure if you know this, but in Malaysia 'Bumiputras or Bumiputeras' 'sons of the soil' include Malays as well as other indigenous people, including the orang asli of the peninsula, as well as the Dayak groups in Borneo, including Iban, Kayan, Kelabit, Bidayuh.
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Old 06-18-2014, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,150,387 times
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^malays is malayo austronesian in malaysia, but they're used more for the muslims and indian muslims can also become malays in malaysia. Bumiputras are slightly different, not so sure they're counted as malays but if the question is about whether they're malayo or not then the answe is probably is yes.

The dayaks group of malaysia is also related to the dayaks of indonesian borneo, except the indonesian counterpart are far more traditional.

The thing is malaysian are using their claim as being "related" to claim indonesian culture, but tend to ignore indonesia in bigger picture beyond sumatra, java and borneo (also grouping all of indonesian as malays muslims that tend to mislead people, because malays in indonesia is just another ethnic), and the fact that indonesian only speak bahasa indo due to the dutch.
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