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Old 07-10-2014, 08:28 PM
 
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Are there any Indonesians on CD Asia forum? How about anyone visiting there?

Java Island is quite fantastic and unprecedented to have literally up to 141 million people live on Java, most populous island in the entire Planet. Outside of Java, Sumatra, Borneo, and Bali Island are other prominent, well known islands to foreigners.

Borneo Island is actually technically the largest island in all of Asia geographically, even larger than Honshu island of Japan. Borneo is Asia’s equivalent of Amazon’s jungle. Despite vast swaths of pristine nature, 19 million people somehow live on that island together on Indonesia and Malaysia’s side of Borneo.

Sulawesi island is entirely obscure for a large island of Indonesia, and probably doesn’t get too much tourists from other countries yet.

There is an abundance of cultural wealth already on islands of Indonesia, and emerging global economy on Java. Indonesia is completely foreign, and exotic to North Americans, not quite as much to Australians.


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Old 07-10-2014, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,144,521 times
Reputation: 219
Yes i am Indonesians i maybe able explain further about the nation and its abundance of wealth:

Indonesia is a huge archipelago with 17000+ islands ranging from the Austronesian dominant central-west to the land of Melanesians in the east. Before the Dutch conquest of Indonesia (aka: Spice islands) all of these different islands were different kingdoms and tribes, each with its own entity and culture, now this identity still survives among the people of different background after the nation were united by the Dutch and becomes independent.

For example in Java alone there are more than 1 entity mainly: Javanese, Sundanese, Maduranese, Bantenese and Betawi. The Betawis are formed by the Dutch in Batavia (Jakarta) and they're not really natives of the island because they're slaves brought from the different parts of the archipelago, and also to an extent Malaccan/Amboina Portuguese. The border town of Sunda and Javanese in Cirebon also have their own identity and became a sub-group of the people, being the melting pot of both culture. Then there is the Hindus remnant of Java in Tengger, Banyuwangi and Banten also become a sub-group of ethnic bearing different names and cultural believes. Islam in Java are also divided by those who practice Kejawen or traditionalist mixture of Islam-Hinduism-Buddhism form of religion and those who practice Santri Islam or the strictly Islamic follower. The rest are the Abangan or the general population.

In Bali too things can get very complicated there is the Bali Aga or the native Balinese and the Majapahit Balinese, those who fled Java during the collapse of the Majapahit empire. You can see the Balinese Aga living in remote area accros the lake Batur, they're the purest form of the Balinese Aga and still practice heavy mix of Hinduism and Animanism.

So yes those are the example how in just 1 island things can get very different to one another, even in Sulawesi you can find the Bugis in Makassar and only to drive 4 hour before you see the land of the Christian Animist tribes of Toraja. In Celebes, Ambon and Nusa Tenggara the population are culturally tribal and gatherer, rather than the civilized Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms of Sumatra, Bali, Lombok and Java, so East Indonesia becomes unique on its own and are still filled with remote tribal villages in different islands. The population in Ambon and Nusa Tenggara have been mixing with the Melanesians, so often they look more like Papuans. Then when you go to further East you will step into Papua the Melanesian's land, and the island is basically filled with hundreds of different tribes.

Religion also plays a factor along with their previous background, such as the Javanese's Hindu-Buddhist background and the more Christian east with tribal background. Along with religion also are the climates of the islands, each different cultural group are formed and grew from different environment that their islands offer, many of these small islands in tribes are often isolated and didn't really receive any outside influence and become unique on its own, for example the staple of Eastern Indonesia is Sago rather than rice. You can see it by travelling in Nusa Tenggara alone to see the variety of the tribal culture, and observe different believes and cultural practice these different islands hold.

Sulawesi actually are far more interesting than Indonesian Borneo, with the Torajaland and the diving spots scattered in Manado, the unexplored Gorontalo (actually is an interesting place but just not a lot of people know it compared to the other 2 attraction) plus the volcanoes! you can't get enough volcanoes in Indonesia lol. Indonesian Borneo on the other hand is isn't that fantastic, apart from the vastly depleting jungle because of poor government protection, i find it dull. Although you can eat some nice local delicacies in places like Pontianak and Singkawang, lots of Chinese there i remember. There is Hindu Dayak tribes deep in the jungle, again not much known to the outside world.

Most of the different tribes also spoke different language, have different custom and traditional clothing, it is already like going to another country by travelling interislands.

Last edited by Goshio22; 07-10-2014 at 10:43 PM..
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Old 07-10-2014, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,144,521 times
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Ethnicity map of Indonesia:



Few explanatory Java only:
Green is the Malaysphere, skincolor orange Javanese, light blue Sunda, Orange Balinese/Hindus, Red Maduranese.

The Aquablue on Sumatra and Borneo is also Malaysphere.

Last edited by Goshio22; 07-10-2014 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 08-10-2014, 08:50 PM
 
6,056 posts, read 10,839,435 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Yes i am Indonesians i maybe able explain further about the nation and its abundance of wealth:

Indonesia is a huge archipelago with 17000+ islands ranging from the Austronesian dominant central-west to the land of Melanesians in the east. Before the Dutch conquest of Indonesia (aka: Spice islands) all of these different islands were different kingdoms and tribes, each with its own entity and culture, now this identity still survives among the people of different background after the nation were united by the Dutch and becomes independent.

For example in Java alone there are more than 1 entity mainly: Javanese, Sundanese, Maduranese, Bantenese and Betawi. The Betawis are formed by the Dutch in Batavia (Jakarta) and they're not really natives of the island because they're slaves brought from the different parts of the archipelago, and also to an extent Malaccan/Amboina Portuguese. The border town of Sunda and Javanese in Cirebon also have their own identity and became a sub-group of the people, being the melting pot of both culture. Then there is the Hindus remnant of Java in Tengger, Banyuwangi and Banten also become a sub-group of ethnic bearing different names and cultural believes. Islam in Java are also divided by those who practice Kejawen or traditionalist mixture of Islam-Hinduism-Buddhism form of religion and those who practice Santri Islam or the strictly Islamic follower. The rest are the Abangan or the general population.

In Bali too things can get very complicated there is the Bali Aga or the native Balinese and the Majapahit Balinese, those who fled Java during the collapse of the Majapahit empire. You can see the Balinese Aga living in remote area accros the lake Batur, they're the purest form of the Balinese Aga and still practice heavy mix of Hinduism and Animanism.

So yes those are the example how in just 1 island things can get very different to one another, even in Sulawesi you can find the Bugis in Makassar and only to drive 4 hour before you see the land of the Christian Animist tribes of Toraja. In Celebes, Ambon and Nusa Tenggara the population are culturally tribal and gatherer, rather than the civilized Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms of Sumatra, Bali, Lombok and Java, so East Indonesia becomes unique on its own and are still filled with remote tribal villages in different islands. The population in Ambon and Nusa Tenggara have been mixing with the Melanesians, so often they look more like Papuans. Then when you go to further East you will step into Papua the Melanesian's land, and the island is basically filled with hundreds of different tribes.

Religion also plays a factor along with their previous background, such as the Javanese's Hindu-Buddhist background and the more Christian east with tribal background. Along with religion also are the climates of the islands, each different cultural group are formed and grew from different environment that their islands offer, many of these small islands in tribes are often isolated and didn't really receive any outside influence and become unique on its own, for example the staple of Eastern Indonesia is Sago rather than rice. You can see it by travelling in Nusa Tenggara alone to see the variety of the tribal culture, and observe different believes and cultural practice these different islands hold.

Sulawesi actually are far more interesting than Indonesian Borneo, with the Torajaland and the diving spots scattered in Manado, the unexplored Gorontalo (actually is an interesting place but just not a lot of people know it compared to the other 2 attraction) plus the volcanoes! you can't get enough volcanoes in Indonesia lol. Indonesian Borneo on the other hand is isn't that fantastic, apart from the vastly depleting jungle because of poor government protection, i find it dull. Although you can eat some nice local delicacies in places like Pontianak and Singkawang, lots of Chinese there i remember. There is Hindu Dayak tribes deep in the jungle, again not much known to the outside world.

Most of the different tribes also spoke different language, have different custom and traditional clothing, it is already like going to another country by travelling interislands.
There is undeniable very unique cultural wealth in areas of Indonesia. You have up a very compelling personal analysis of your observations and past experience over there.

Some people might not realize there is more historical attachments than expected to modern times of Indonesia. Those separate ethnicities seem quite enigmatic, and unknown to people outside of Indonesia, including extent of cultural, lifestyle differences, and outlook on life between various ethnic groups.

How much of Dutch colonialism penetrated into Indonesian society? I assume not that much, and only subtle barely existing remnants left in current times to only some islands of Indonesia. Suriname, another far away former Dutch entity in South American continent, has far more permeation of Dutch culture there, and especially in Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, Dutch Caribbean islands officially part of the Netherlands. I assume geography, and an already existing prominent culture is some main reasons why Dutch colonialism didnít influence Indonesia too much.

I didnít know about Kejawen, although I had a feeling traditionalist mixture of Islam-Buddhism-Hinduism in the same religious belief must have to exist considering cultural demographics over there! How much in percentage of Indonesiaís national inhabitants practice and believe in Kejawen and your personal estimate for amount of people practicing this intricate blend of religion spirituality?

I know your post is already containing very detailed observations. However, what other specific descriptions and information might you have to say about your native home country of Indonesia? What province region are you currently living in over there? What are some of your favorite areas and least favorite places of Indonesia? How are some of the main tourism attractions? How is the current economic situation over there, especially in Java, Sumatra, Bali islands?
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Old 08-10-2014, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,144,521 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
There is undeniable very unique cultural wealth in areas of Indonesia. You have up a very compelling personal analysis of your observations and past experience over there.

Some people might not realize there is more historical attachments than expected to modern times of Indonesia. Those separate ethnicities seem quite enigmatic, and unknown to people outside of Indonesia, including extent of cultural, lifestyle differences, and outlook on life between various ethnic groups.

How much of Dutch colonialism penetrated into Indonesian society? I assume not that much, and only subtle barely existing remnants left in current times to only some islands of Indonesia. Suriname, another far away former Dutch entity in South American continent, has far more permeation of Dutch culture there, and especially in Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, Dutch Caribbean islands officially part of the Netherlands. I assume geography, and an already existing prominent culture is some main reasons why Dutch colonialism didn’t influence Indonesia too much.

I didn’t know about Kejawen, although I had a feeling traditionalist mixture of Islam-Buddhism-Hinduism in the same religious belief must have to exist considering cultural demographics over there! How much in percentage of Indonesia’s national inhabitants practice and believe in Kejawen and your personal estimate for amount of people practicing this intricate blend of religion spirituality?

I know your post is already containing very detailed observations. However, what other specific descriptions and information might you have to say about your native home country of Indonesia? What province region are you currently living in over there? What are some of your favorite areas and least favorite places of Indonesia? How are some of the main tourism attractions? How is the current economic situation over there, especially in Java, Sumatra, Bali islands?
Dutch colonialism is mostly concentrated in Java, the adaption of Bahasa Indonesia itself is actually a huge influence of Dutch colonialism itself. Unlike the Dutch Americans colonies most of the area are directly under the Dutch crown, while Dutch East India company (VOC) went to the east. It is typically Dutch to adapt anything that's beneficial for them financially and through that they absorbed the political situation of the region they establish trading post on. They have 0 intention of making an actual colonies back then and adapted the "Malay" language to keep in contact with the regional rulers as well keeping the spice and pepper trade flowing. These trading posts are easy to built and will be abandoned if to them aren't that beneficial, as proven the Dutch abandonment of New Amsterdam for Banda island because the population in the Americas are non-Dutch. When VOC goes bankrupt only then Dutch language is starting to be adapted however the Malay language has been deeply rooted then, and later followed the education policy for native, but only 6% of the population are educated so Dutch language never gets to the level of high prominence.

The existing prominent culture is one reason why the Dutch influence seems to be less, the Dutch adopts local culture, philosophy and influence in Nederlandse Oost Indie. Partially its also to keep the colony stable, such as adapting the Javanese philosophy in planning an architecture. Maybe also to keep the Javanese elite nobles working for them happy, its surprising that during the colonial times Javanese script is prominently in use compared to today. Also the European architecture becomes useless in the climate thus they also mixed up local architecture and adapting it, creating hybrids of Dutch-Indo architecture that becomes a base of the Indonesian architecture, most prominent example is Bandung's Institute of Techonology buildings today and the many Bungalows that had survived. And the appliances of the architecture follows up to the latest trend throughout the 300 years of rule from, replicating Dutch building, to neo-classicalism, imperalist and finally Art Deco, which is mostly in use as industries flourish in the early 1900. The use of art deco makes it seemingly less for cities in the colony to ressemble the Netherland, while Curacao was a poorer colony that maintain its old buildings compared to the more trendy Oost Indie. Food is also adapted by the Dutch, and lots of European elements is adopted to local cuisines even simple snack like pastel and poffertjes. But in order to see the Dutch influence you have to scratch it deeply through the society, the society today mainly is based out through the colonialism and adaptation of western style living.

I have no idea how many practices pure form of Kejawen but it mostly only applies to Javanese (to an extend the Sundanese also have its form of Kejawen called "Sunda Wiwitan or Hindu Sunda" (im only talking about Java's case for now), but its definitely prominent among the nobilities and royals of Java, the royal house of Surakarta and Yogyakarta definitely practices it. Even today in the political world of Indonesia, consisting significant Javanese families, with strong Kejawen believe. Even our first president Sukarno and his daughter today Megawati is known Kejawen practicer and beliver of black magic, and also the recent losing president candidate Prabowo Subianto. Its hard estimate how many blended it but its definitely rooted deeply to the society that 90% of Javanese society today believes in mysticism and spirituality of Javanese Kejawen. They become symbolic to the Javanese people in general, and as shown the level of their tolerance compared to other ethnic are much higher.

I am from Jakarta, the capital, while it is crazy, corrupt, dirty and chaotic, there's just so many for me personally to appreciate. My favorite areas of Indonesia got to be Java and Bali, i just enjoy and appreciate how the culture, believes, mysteries and society in general as compared to other provinces, there are just places that you makes you feel that if you don't explore it you just won't understand how things work in these two places. The level of diversity and variety when you go to different places just fascinates you, even though these people lives so closely to each other.. that's also the fascination that i had about the overall country. Not to mention the many natural beauty the country holds because of its archipelago geographic location and size, but there are some drawbacks. My least favorite province is Aceh because its Sharia is suppressing the people and its ridiculous to have that kind of rule in a big nation that proclaimed itself to be the "largest Muslim democratic nation". There are many attraction that different islands holds varying from its diversity of culture, religion, believe and people, to natural beauty ranging from the vast area from Sumatra to Flores to Papua, and the wonders of mysteries ranging from the ancient temples of Java, Bali and the isolated villages untouched by outside influence. Isolated island and diving spots scattered throughout the country as a get away from the touristy parts of the country is widely available, zero no-go area.

Economic situation of Java and Bali is good, since these two islands are the most developed out of all the places in Indonesia. Industries are focused mainly in Java and job creation remains stable due to it, being the most populated island in the world gives it the advantage of easy access and sufficient labor cost. People in Bali are relatively prosperous, no extremely poor people in Bali as far concerned even in the countrysides and unemployment seems to be low. Java is populated, poverty can be seen in many of its big cities like Jakarta, but the rest of the place seems to be content. Sumatra varies, while it is the largest island in the country, it consist of rainforests parks that's threatened by constant development and rising palm oil plantation but it is the 3rd most developed island in the country, i haven't explore it in depth like i did in Java and Bali just few places. The rest of the country has some fair recent development, but compared to the west they're quiet backward.

Last edited by Goshio22; 08-10-2014 at 10:48 PM..
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Old 08-11-2014, 05:39 AM
 
Location: West Jakarta + Tangerang
376 posts, read 742,424 times
Reputation: 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thepastpresentandfuture View Post
There is undeniable very unique cultural wealth in areas of Indonesia. You have up a very compelling personal analysis of your observations and past experience over there.

Some people might not realize there is more historical attachments than expected to modern times of Indonesia. Those separate ethnicities seem quite enigmatic, and unknown to people outside of Indonesia, including extent of cultural, lifestyle differences, and outlook on life between various ethnic groups.

How much of Dutch colonialism penetrated into Indonesian society? I assume not that much, and only subtle barely existing remnants left in current times to only some islands of Indonesia. Suriname, another far away former Dutch entity in South American continent, has far more permeation of Dutch culture there, and especially in Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao, Dutch Caribbean islands officially part of the Netherlands. I assume geography, and an already existing prominent culture is some main reasons why Dutch colonialism didn’t influence Indonesia too much.
Nice thread

Agree , stronger Dutch influence in the countries of South American, African and other colonies, in Indonesia is very low influence of colonial because Indonesia have the influence of south india and the far east during standing royal kingdoms in Indonesian Hindu-Buddhist before the coming of the colonial nation, so less to could receive European influence, but modern day the influence of the western / latin american / japan / korea / arab / europen / african / pacific/mongol etc very was accepted in Indonesia.


My favorite place is Bandung (Lembang + Shopping), Bali ( beaches,tanah lot and other tourist places) , Bogor ( Puncak + Villa ) and Java/Jokjakarta ( Temple + Malioboro )

Last edited by stevania01; 08-11-2014 at 05:56 AM..
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:33 AM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
188 posts, read 186,483 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Yes i am Indonesians i maybe able explain further about the nation and its abundance of wealth:

Indonesia is a huge archipelago with 17000+ islands ranging from the Austronesian dominant central-west to the land of Melanesians in the east. Before the Dutch conquest of Indonesia (aka: Spice islands) all of these different islands were different kingdoms and tribes, each with its own entity and culture, now this identity still survives among the people of different background after the nation were united by the Dutch and becomes independent.

For example in Java alone there are more than 1 entity mainly: Javanese, Sundanese, Maduranese, Bantenese and Betawi. The Betawis are formed by the Dutch in Batavia (Jakarta) and they're not really natives of the island because they're slaves brought from the different parts of the archipelago, and also to an extent Malaccan/Amboina Portuguese. The border town of Sunda and Javanese in Cirebon also have their own identity and became a sub-group of the people, being the melting pot of both culture. Then there is the Hindus remnant of Java in Tengger, Banyuwangi and Banten also become a sub-group of ethnic bearing different names and cultural believes. Islam in Java are also divided by those who practice Kejawen or traditionalist mixture of Islam-Hinduism-Buddhism form of religion and those who practice Santri Islam or the strictly Islamic follower. The rest are the Abangan or the general population.

In Bali too things can get very complicated there is the Bali Aga or the native Balinese and the Majapahit Balinese, those who fled Java during the collapse of the Majapahit empire. You can see the Balinese Aga living in remote area accros the lake Batur, they're the purest form of the Balinese Aga and still practice heavy mix of Hinduism and Animanism.

So yes those are the example how in just 1 island things can get very different to one another, even in Sulawesi you can find the Bugis in Makassar and only to drive 4 hour before you see the land of the Christian Animist tribes of Toraja. In Celebes, Ambon and Nusa Tenggara the population are culturally tribal and gatherer, rather than the civilized Hindu-Buddhist kingdoms of Sumatra, Bali, Lombok and Java, so East Indonesia becomes unique on its own and are still filled with remote tribal villages in different islands. The population in Ambon and Nusa Tenggara have been mixing with the Melanesians, so often they look more like Papuans. Then when you go to further East you will step into Papua the Melanesian's land, and the island is basically filled with hundreds of different tribes.

Religion also plays a factor along with their previous background, such as the Javanese's Hindu-Buddhist background and the more Christian east with tribal background. Along with religion also are the climates of the islands, each different cultural group are formed and grew from different environment that their islands offer, many of these small islands in tribes are often isolated and didn't really receive any outside influence and become unique on its own, for example the staple of Eastern Indonesia is Sago rather than rice. You can see it by travelling in Nusa Tenggara alone to see the variety of the tribal culture, and observe different believes and cultural practice these different islands hold.

Sulawesi actually are far more interesting than Indonesian Borneo, with the Torajaland and the diving spots scattered in Manado, the unexplored Gorontalo (actually is an interesting place but just not a lot of people know it compared to the other 2 attraction) plus the volcanoes! you can't get enough volcanoes in Indonesia lol. Indonesian Borneo on the other hand is isn't that fantastic, apart from the vastly depleting jungle because of poor government protection, i find it dull. Although you can eat some nice local delicacies in places like Pontianak and Singkawang, lots of Chinese there i remember. There is Hindu Dayak tribes deep in the jungle, again not much known to the outside world.

Most of the different tribes also spoke different language, have different custom and traditional clothing, it is already like going to another country by travelling interislands.
Indonesia is very diverse and beautiful. It's no wonder ASEAN's capital is in Jakarta.
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:45 AM
 
Location: West Jakarta + Tangerang
376 posts, read 742,424 times
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hope if you are traveling to Indonesia, do not forget to come to Bandung .. many beautiful sights there primarily rural nature .. bandung one of the favorite tourist from Singaporean , Malaysians and Chinese...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDh_-IhIkhU
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Old 04-14-2015, 11:31 AM
 
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My daughter lives and works in Jakarta and travels often to the nearby islands for an extended weekend. I've heard her mention Bandung and Bali. So much beauty and history in the area. She is trying to convince me to meet her in Bali one of these days. Enjoy this thread very much. Thank you.
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Old 04-14-2015, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Eindhoven, Netherlands
10,422 posts, read 12,409,364 times
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Interesting fact:

Flying from the most Northwestern City of Indonesia (Aceh) to the most Southeastern City (Merauke) will almost take you 7 hours, flying to Palau/Japan/Korea/Mongolia/The Stans/Iran/Oman/Socotra/Seychelles from Aceh, Indonesia takes less time.
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