U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-28-2014, 02:24 AM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,828,052 times
Reputation: 2068

Advertisements

WhenI think mutli-cutural, I think multi-national. the peopel you see from different countries, the available cuisines from different countries. A place with a cosmopolitan feel. I think this is themsot widely accepted use of multi cultural, in fact. Cosmoplitan, in internationlaism, it literally means a city/place or person that embraces its multicultural demographics.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-31-2014, 12:02 PM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 188,060 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
ehh. Well the Philippines has more than 100 ethnolinguistic groups, so Manila is probably very multicultural. But since most of those ethnic groups look the same, people dont think of it as multi-cultural. I guess when we mean multi-cultural, we really mean multi-racial, even if all those people speak the same language, share the same religion, and culture.
Have you completely disregarded our history?

Manila has the world's oldest Chinatown (Bindondo), the only area in Asia which holds Latinos (Cavite) and has native names in Chinese, Arabic, Sanskrit and Spanish: "東都" (Dongdu), كوتا سلودونڠ (Kota Saludong), "षेलुरोन्ग्" (Selurong) and Nuevo Reino de Castilla (New Kingdom of Castille) back when Huang Gatchalian, Sultan Bolkiah, Maharajah Hayam Wuruk and Conquistador de Legaspi ruled Manila.

What's non-sensical is that refugee centers like New Yuck are deemed Multi-cultural but an area contested by 9 major wars between several transcontinental powers...

Manila...

Isn't?

Besides, it's not us Filipinos who push this, it's foreigners themselves! Those guys invaded, bloodied and destroyed our city 9 times and the place has changed culture and religion because they deemed possession of the city crucial to their empire..

Also around 9 times, we have dutifully and diligently rebuilt our city over and over again despite these waves of devastating occupation.

And now, you have the gall to claim that a refugee center like New Yuck or Ontario-Canada have more of a right to be called a Multicultural City compared to our bloodied, war-torn, land which has paid for the status of being a global city, with multiple invasions?

Frankly, you are insulting us, by not acknowledging this.

And this is equivalent to saying that Wellington New Zealand is more Multicultural than Jerusalem.

Just because New Zealand has more refugees and a higher range or races there. Completely ignoring the fact that Jerusalem has layers of Arab, Jewish, Crusader, Roman, Greek, Phoenecian and blahblahblah influence showing in it's culture and ruins. And also has been the contested battle-field of around 12 cultures and has been leveled by 12 wars too.

You can also see the same thing in Manila; which have varying layers of culture, i.e: the Laguna Copperplate Inscription showed an Indianized Era, the Tarsillas showed Islamic rule under Sultan Bolkiah, or the Manila Galleons, union with the Mexican Viceroyalty of New Spain and then the ruins of the Art Deco structures gutted during the Second World War, showed CLEAR American colonialism.

Get your brain back into you head.

Wellington is not more multicultural than Jerusalem.
New York is not more multicultural than Manila.

Merely because of the fact that there is a higher range of refugees in those places (Wellington and New York).

The Exhibit A, is in the history.

How many ruins of crusader castles are there in Wellington as compared to Jerusalem? How many Romance of Don Juan are there in New York as compared to Manila?

Perspective.

Last edited by Selurong; 08-31-2014 at 12:18 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2014, 12:22 PM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 188,060 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
In the way that there are so many in the continent of Asia and having Manila as the most multicultural city in Asia is ridiculous outside of creating an extremely limited and generally ridiculous definition of multicultural?

I'm sure that for any city or country there will be natives who will blindly vote for their city or capital, but the question would be who outside of the natives would vote the same?
Read my above post.

Do you think refugee centers like New Yuck can compare?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2014, 04:09 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,182 posts, read 23,711,901 times
Reputation: 11635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
Read my above post.

Do you think refugee centers like New Yuck can compare?
Yea, obviously I do. I think your definition of multicultural is really idiosyncratic and obviously most people seem to disagree with it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-31-2014, 04:12 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,182 posts, read 23,711,901 times
Reputation: 11635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smtchll View Post
ehh. Well the Philippines has more than 100 ethnolinguistic groups, so Manila is probably very multicultural. But since most of those ethnic groups look the same, people dont think of it as multi-cultural. I guess when we mean multi-cultural, we really mean multi-racial, even if all those people speak the same language, share the same religion, and culture.
Yea, I can definitely buy that argument, but that kind of argument definitely lends itself to an argument that'd be even stronger for Indian megacities which would draw upon even larger and more distinct within-country ethnolinguistic groups (and even with a lot of people who actually look significantly different). So an argument on those grounds, while it does highlight the kind of diversity you can find in Manila, Indian cities like Delhi and Mumbai seems to have an stronger argument.

This forum does slant a lot more towards Southeast Asia, then East Asia, than it does to South Asia, Central Asia, Western Asia (Iranian plateau, Anatolian peninsula, Arabian peninsula, the Levant, Mesopotamia, the Caucasus) which is a bit of a shame since those are all huge and diverse regions which were arguably far more trafficked and more significant cultural crossroads.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 08-31-2014 at 05:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2014, 12:29 AM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 188,060 times
Reputation: 95
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
Yea, obviously I do. I think your definition of multicultural is really idiosyncratic and obviously most people seem to disagree with it.
Why is it idiosnycratic? Doesn't Manila, which has the world's oldest Chinatown (Binondo) and the only Latino municipality in Asia (Cavite). Does not qualify it to be more multicultural that the other's who say that Singapore is? (Has no Latino-area and is a modern Chinatown compared to Binondo, which is the world's oldest Chinatown).

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2014, 01:42 AM
 
Location: In the heights
22,182 posts, read 23,711,901 times
Reputation: 11635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
Why is it idiosnycratic? Doesn't Manila, which has the world's oldest Chinatown (Binondo) and the only Latino municipality in Asia (Cavite). Does not qualify it to be more multicultural that the other's who say that Singapore is? (Has no Latino-area and is a modern Chinatown compared to Binondo, which is the world's oldest Chinatown).

The Chinese have had a presence in southeast Asia and other parts of Asia well before the establishment in Binondo without having to establish an official chinatown and ghettoize the Chinese population who had previously not had to have those restrictions for the several centuries prior. What, did you think it had to take Spanish domination of the Philippines in order for other cultures to have discovered maritime trade and settlement? Is your mind that thoroughly colonized?

Having a latino municipality is great, but does that hedge against the greco-buddhist syncretic religions of century past or any of the other myriad fusions and crossroads throughout the Old World? Does it matter there were other much larger European, latino or not, throughout Asia? If you're arguing on the level of how far in the past these influences are, then Manila is going to be late to the party. If you argue on a very idiosyncratic level of it having to fit exactly what happened to Manila, then surely you've got a good argument, but nothing otherwise especially as most suggestions so far have been about distinct communities that currently exist.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 09-01-2014 at 01:51 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2014, 03:49 AM
 
621 posts, read 384,601 times
Reputation: 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler View Post
The Chinese have had a presence in southeast Asia and other parts of Asia well before the establishment in Binondo without having to establish an official chinatown and ghettoize the Chinese population who had previously not had to have those restrictions for the several centuries prior. What, did you think it had to take Spanish domination of the Philippines in order for other cultures to have discovered maritime trade and settlement? Is your mind that thoroughly colonized?

Having a latino municipality is great, but does that hedge against the greco-buddhist syncretic religions of century past or any of the other myriad fusions and crossroads throughout the Old World? Does it matter there were other much larger European, latino or not, throughout Asia? If you're arguing on the level of how far in the past these influences are, then Manila is going to be late to the party. If you argue on a very idiosyncratic level of it having to fit exactly what happened to Manila, then surely you've got a good argument, but nothing otherwise especially as most suggestions so far have been about distinct communities that currently exist.
Then why was the oldest Chinatown located in Manila? Does that suggest that a more substantial, saturated, prominent and intellectual number was situated in Manila? Can you shed more light on your take of this side of history as it happened.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-01-2014, 02:43 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,182 posts, read 23,711,901 times
Reputation: 11635
Quote:
Originally Posted by neMarL View Post
Then why was the oldest Chinatown located in Manila? Does that suggest that a more substantial, saturated, prominent and intellectual number was situated in Manila? Can you shed more light on your take of this side of history as it happened.
Because chinatowns are a fairly modern construct from when there was heavy enforced segregation and much less integration so these segregated neighborhoods would keep going? These were built because these were legally enforced segregated neighborhoods meant to keep people easily contained and destroyed if deemed necessary.

There were overseas Chinese communities from hundreds of years prior to the establishment of the Manila chinatown--most of them ended up being assimilated especially if they went really far, but others became subcultures within those new homes.

The probably most numerous of these would be those in the Malay peninsula and surrounding islands since that was such a valuable trade route. Those communities still exist as Peranakan Chinese/Baba-Nyonya and that started with a smaller first wave in the 10th century and then became much larger with another wave starting in the beginning of the 15th century. However, they didn't become ghettoized into a single Chinatown, but were instead settled throughout and had a lot of freedom of movement. This became much less so as trade become the monopoly of colonial powers who had strong incentives for controlling, regulating, and taxing trade.

Also in the same region in overlapping eras would be a lot of Indian influence, especially those of the previously dominant Tamil kingdoms.

It's interesting that both groups had long standing communities in the region and that was only magnified during the colonial era when even more came in as laborers and traders. The Malacca straits region were always international as it had been a major international trade route for about a millennium and a half.

Last edited by OyCrumbler; 09-01-2014 at 02:54 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-04-2014, 05:54 AM
 
32,119 posts, read 33,030,273 times
Reputation: 14962
Quote:
Originally Posted by Davy-040 View Post
I think Tel Aviv and Pattaya should be in the top 10 instead of Beijing and Mumbai
I definitely think that Tel Aviv is more international/multicultural than Beijing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top