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Old 08-09-2014, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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I've heard of this in Malaysia. Due to the perception that Chinese and Indian would economically just rule Malaysia, there are various laws to get more Malays into the gov't or other positions.

From what little I know, it also seems that some Chinese and Indian in Malay, don't feel 100% comfortable with all the laws, that it isn't exactly equal.

However, I am unsure about these things. Would be interesting to explore more on this thread.
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Old 08-09-2014, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
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Well as a person who had been living there for some times i could tell you that the law is totally unjust, the bumiputra policy provide the Malays with financial and job benefit. It is a must for companies in Malaysia to hire certain amount of Malays worker. Gov't also provide around RM500 for Malays with income less than RM 1500 or unemployed, and less for the non-Muslim Bumiputras. There is even credit benefit from banks too for the Malay population, the word "race" is actually put in the form to identify your ethnic background. In Malaysia it is impossible for ethnic Chinese to rise into government positions, only as representative, you can see this in fact in the government city of Putrajaya with above 90% Malay population in a Selangor which has significant Chinese population. If you are Malays things are made very easy for you from job, education, or even more government position. But to be fair you must have internal connexion to get the govt job, most of the crony Malays working in the government are filthy rich.

Even the University Malaya are reluctant to accept non-Malays, most of the Chinese\Indian goes to private university instead or overseas for better life and never return.

If you converted to Islam in Malaysia, you can get lots of benefit too, and even Indian Muslim\mamak can get "Malay" status with exactly the same benefit of the Muslim Malays. They won't give the "orang asli" the equal status because most of them are non-muslim despite their origin, compared to the malays who originated from sumatra. Well these days the Malays aren't even from Sumatra anymore. The point is the more Muslim you are, the more benefit you can get, thats how i would describe it.

Last edited by Goshio22; 08-09-2014 at 09:57 PM..
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Old 08-09-2014, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,943 posts, read 36,139,074 times
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That's interesting. That's basically the impression I got as well.

It's interesting when I visit KL, and see how many Persian, Arabic, etc. are throughout the capital now. I guess those laws are more favorable for them, if they make the move over and try to start a business, and potentially try to set roots.

But, yeah, Malaysia for the Malay, is the biggest impression I get. Which is quite interesting considering how long the Indian and Chinese populations have been there now, a few generations at least with tons of extended family, etc.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:54 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,144,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
That's interesting. That's basically the impression I got as well.

It's interesting when I visit KL, and see how many Persian, Arabic, etc. are throughout the capital now. I guess those laws are more favorable for them, if they make the move over and try to start a business, and potentially try to set roots.

But, yeah, Malaysia for the Malay, is the biggest impression I get. Which is quite interesting considering how long the Indian and Chinese populations have been there now, a few generations at least with tons of extended family, etc.
Moreover there's interesting arguments about "Malay superiority", made by the government to support their claim. Such as the originality of the "Malays" being in Malaysia instead of Sumatra, just because they have to cross the straits of Malaya before they can get to Sumatra. To me its just inferiority complex they have. One of the politician even said that if you don't like it you can just get lost and never return.

Yes its interesting to see thiose Persians and Arabic around Bukit Bintang, i think lots of Muslim countries are attracted to Malaysia because of the religion, better life and income. Most of them are Pakistani if i recall right and also some from random mideast countries. The policy in Malaysia encourages migrants to work there, because of its relatively low population. And for Muslims it is easier to get citizenship in Malaysia, if you're not, you have to be married with Malaysians atleast to get this citizenship.
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Old 08-10-2014, 07:12 AM
 
147 posts, read 173,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
That's interesting. That's basically the impression I got as well.

It's interesting when I visit KL, and see how many Persian, Arabic, etc. are throughout the capital now. I guess those laws are more favorable for them, if they make the move over and try to start a business, and potentially try to set roots.

But, yeah, Malaysia for the Malay, is the biggest impression I get. Which is quite interesting considering how long the Indian and Chinese populations have been there now, a few generations at least with tons of extended family, etc.
I think Goshio has explained it pretty well.

Your last point is something that more people need to think of. Now I'm not saying Malays didn't contribute to what Malaysia is today - of course they did - but Chinese and Indians were a HUGE part of the foundation and development of modern Malaysia to what it is now. Partly under colonial direction, Malaysia developed industries in tin and other mining, rubber.etc. Chinese tin miners founded towns like Kuala Lumpur (muddy confluence in Malay), Ipoh, Taiping. Ports from Singapore, to Malacca, Butterworth, George Town, Kuching and Kota Kinabalu were full of Chinese, Indian and other traders. Sure, one could argue the colonial government policy favoured the entrepreneurial Chinese, or used labourers from British India, but past is past. Yes, in the 1970s the 'ethnic Chinese' controlled a vast majority of the economy, but I think the current policy isn't the right way to go about it. It's obviously alienating non-Bumiputras, and many Malays themselves, especially the young more egalitarian ones. It remains to see if this will mark a decline of Malaysia as we know it.
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Old 08-10-2014, 12:36 PM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
188 posts, read 186,215 times
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Why don't they just stop their policy of racial-segragationalism and adopt a common culture and disregard race entirely?

According to censuses in the Philippines. 1/3rd of the people living in Luzon have Spanish ancestry (ranging from Spaniards to Latino) and 18% of the whole population of the Philippines have part-Chinese ancestry, yet if these people walk down the streets I would consider them as ordinary Filipinos... With no special treatment whatsoever.

But the thing with Malaysia is that even when the Chinese or Indians in Malaysia had been living there for generations, they still hadn't blended in and acculturated to the Malays because all groups still practice segregationalism. And in their segregationalism, Malays top-it-off with supremacism.

Just stop it with the affirmative action already. Drop the quotas and just hire people via individual merit, not over what race he is.
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Old 08-11-2014, 01:06 AM
 
147 posts, read 173,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
Why don't they just stop their policy of racial-segragationalism and adopt a common culture and disregard race entirely?

According to censuses in the Philippines. 1/3rd of the people living in Luzon have Spanish ancestry (ranging from Spaniards to Latino) and 18% of the whole population of the Philippines have part-Chinese ancestry, yet if these people walk down the streets I would consider them as ordinary Filipinos... With no special treatment whatsoever.

But the thing with Malaysia is that even when the Chinese or Indians in Malaysia had been living there for generations, they still hadn't blended in and acculturated to the Malays because all groups still practice segregationalism. And in their segregationalism, Malays top-it-off with supremacism.

Just stop it with the affirmative action already. Drop the quotas and just hire people via individual merit, not over what race he is.
Islam is one reason why there wasn't much mixing in Malaysia: Muslims did not readily marry 'infidels', and those who did had to convert. Muslims who married infidels and did not convert were often ostracised. Of course there was still intermarriage, back then and now, the Baba/Nyonya are one example. Indian 'Mamaks' (Muslim Indians) married with Malays too. Colonial policies merely furthered the segregation in Malaysia, which bred suspicion and resentment between the communities, which differed especially in religion.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,144,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caravelli View Post
Islam is one reason why there wasn't much mixing in Malaysia: Muslims did not readily marry 'infidels', and those who did had to convert. Muslims who married infidels and did not convert were often ostracised. Of course there was still intermarriage, back then and now, the Baba/Nyonya are one example. Indian 'Mamaks' (Muslim Indians) married with Malays too. Colonial policies merely furthered the segregation in Malaysia, which bred suspicion and resentment between the communities, which differed especially in religion.
Hmmm so the society of Malaysia was like that since back then its completely different in comparison with the Indonesians where Muslims accept other religion since those times, i suppose the religion policy in Malaysia that prevent the Muslims from leaving their religion is also a major issue why they won't just mix as much like they did in past, because of the cultural gap that's provided.
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Old 08-11-2014, 08:35 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goshio22 View Post
Hmmm so the society of Malaysia was like that since back then its completely different in comparison with the Indonesians where Muslims accept other religion since those times, i suppose the religion policy in Malaysia that prevent the Muslims from leaving their religion is also a major issue why they won't just mix as much like they did in past, because of the cultural gap that's provided.
Isn't the number of Hindus and Buddhist and such actually quite small in Indonesia, comparatively, percentage-wise?

Actually, I just looked it up - 1.69% Hindu, 0.72% Buddhist in Indonesia.

In Malaysia, it's 19.8% Buddhist and 6.3% Hindu.
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Old 08-11-2014, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Jakarta, Indonesia
1,022 posts, read 3,144,102 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Isn't the number of Hindus and Buddhist and such actually quite small in Indonesia, comparatively, percentage-wise?

Actually, I just looked it up - 1.69% Hindu, 0.72% Buddhist in Indonesia.

In Malaysia, it's 19.8% Buddhist and 6.3% Hindu.
Yes it does, but there's no law that favors one religion over another, many couples with different religion did get together without having to change their religious affiliation.

And when you think that figure 1.7% is actually 4 million people, around 3.5 million lives in Bali and the others are scattered throughout the country.

As for Buddhism, the decline is probably because of Chinese Indonesians favoring Christianity and the recognition of confucianism as the 6 recognized religion. However these Chinese minorities are significant by number in major cities.

Last edited by Goshio22; 08-11-2014 at 09:54 AM..
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