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Old 09-21-2014, 10:07 AM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,337,977 times
Reputation: 15493

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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevania01 View Post
it's just your own opinion, because you have never lived in Indonesia, in western Indonesia is dominated by Islamic and mixed with christian etc which is in east Indonesia the population adheres to a christian religious majority Protestant and Catholic,I just wonder why there are some people who think too narrowly about our country , and at this time also many foreigners living and working in Indonesia is mainly still dominate east asian, australian, singaporean etc a I think Indonesians will never be racist to people any country, you are you and we are us... unless you put malaysia in it...
It's true I've never lived in Indonesia, but I did visit this beautiful country as a tourist. I made a blanket statement that needs to be qualified. I think I would be comfortable in a place like the lovely island of Bali, which is a majority Hindu island that also has a number of Buddhists and others amongst it's population. I mean to say I would insist on living in a place that has a degree of liberality so that if I make a second home there any friend who is not just Christian but, say, Jewish, Baha'i, Mormon, African-American, Israeli, Gay or Lesbian would feel welcomed visiting me.

I also visited the Philippines and I found it to be a friendlier place with people who reacted more positively to me as an American (even met some Filapinas who barely knew me and were interested in marriage!). But this is just my personal experience and I do not claim this is true for everyone. I do think Indonesian food is much better than Filipino cuisine, though ... but if I was choosing a country based on food my choice would be Thailand.

 
Old 09-21-2014, 11:29 AM
 
5,239 posts, read 6,762,625 times
Reputation: 11326
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
People in poor countries need jobs, wealth, employers, etc.

There is certainly a demand to be met with the idea. There are tons of Americans/Europeans who'd probably go, if the doors were open for them to emigrate. They'd revolutionize the economies, for sure.
And why would they go? Unless they could exploit the slave wage workers there would be no reason. Those living there would be no better off in that case, maybe even worse off. Certainly 50 to 100 million wouldn't move there. The weather alone would put a good number off. There are already 98 million mostly poor folks living on the islands now. And you want to cram another 100 million on to the islands? I can't believe you even suggest such a thing. There are Americans that have married filipinas that have moved there, many think they can start some kind of business, but that often doesn't work out too well for them.
 
Old 09-21-2014, 09:02 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,142 posts, read 23,662,647 times
Reputation: 11622
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevania01 View Post
yeah that's true because the Philippines is more westernized Catholic religion, identity? I also would say too westernized eastern Indonesia because the christian religion and their identity?

you are wrong in big cities in Indonesia there are also some western influence, you may believe you can see this examples of vidio and believe that Jakarta and other cities in Indonesia also has an influence it.


ISMAYALIVE TV: DJAKARTA WAREHOUSE PROJECT 2013 - #DWP13 OFFICIAL AFTERMOVIE - YouTube
Yes, because the Philppines is more westernized Catholic identity. That's a pretty strong draw for westerners. What about this doesn't make sense to you?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd00 View Post
And why would they go? Unless they could exploit the slave wage workers there would be no reason. Those living there would be no better off in that case, maybe even worse off. Certainly 50 to 100 million wouldn't move there. The weather alone would put a good number off. There are already 98 million mostly poor folks living on the islands now. And you want to cram another 100 million on to the islands? I can't believe you even suggest such a thing. There are Americans that have married filipinas that have moved there, many think they can start some kind of business, but that often doesn't work out too well for them.
What they get is a much lower cost of living and the possibility of whatever skills they have being much rarer (and possibly more valuable) and their funds stretching a much longer way. I think the idea was allowing immigration to be far more lenient which I think would actually lead to an "inpour" of new residents from developed countries. The question is whether or not you think this would be beneficial to the host country overall and how it compares to the benefits those from developing countries get from migrating to developed countries.
 
Old 09-21-2014, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Macao
15,945 posts, read 36,164,246 times
Reputation: 9478
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd00 View Post
There are Americans that have married filipinas that have moved there, many think they can start some kind of business, but that often doesn't work out too well for them.
Well, a big part it doesn't work out with them, is that they have so few options 'legally'. By marrying a filipina, you get no rights. Everything goes into her name. Everything.
 
Old 09-21-2014, 10:36 PM
 
Location: In the heights
22,142 posts, read 23,662,647 times
Reputation: 11622
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
Well, a big part it doesn't work out with them, is that they have so few options 'legally'. By marrying a filipina, you get no rights. Everything goes into her name. Everything.
Yea, I hear you.

Are there examples of countries who have allowed this? An almost no strings attached (save for maybe length of residency) sort of mass immigration, actual permanent immigration, for developed countries into developing countries? Most places require a pretty large amount of capital to invest in the place beforehand and even then present a large string of restrictions. It's reminiscent of the old homesteader laws that the Americas and Australia had.
 
Old 09-22-2014, 01:27 PM
 
Location: NoVa
2,126 posts, read 2,911,096 times
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The majority of expats I met when I was still living in Indonesia were the types who went there because they couldn't compete in their home countries. They wouldn't mingle with the locals (except with the women), couldn't care less about learning the local language, and generally very clannish. Very few were entrepreneurs who would make meaningful contribution to their new country. They were there because they married an Indonesian, so they opened a small B&B, or an art gallery, etc. Not the type of businesses that would be able to employ tons of people.
 
Old 09-22-2014, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
9,526 posts, read 9,409,905 times
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Could we all fit on those islands?
 
Old 09-22-2014, 02:46 PM
 
5,239 posts, read 6,762,625 times
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Ya lower cost of living, but look out for those typhoons and not much of a place to run too if they strike. I can't see people flocking there unless they have family there, are married to a filipina, or hope to find a source for cheap slave labor. And blood suckers, they already have plenty of. If the doors were open, you might find older people that can no longer live a middle class life here moving there. But they wouldn't be opening businesses and setting the world on fire, they would be paying some young gal practically nothing to wait on them hand and foot.

If you opened the doors, it wouldn't benefit the average poor man at all. But there would be a few vultures trying to take advantage of them for sure. And the government is still corrupt as hell and really cares nothing for the people. So maybe the government crooks and the new imports with money might profit, but it wouldn't help the average poor person. I read about expats that moved there, many retired and have a bit of money that have gone there to live. They seem to like the easy pace and their life there but I read some joke about the perils of trying to start a profitable business there, wish I could recall it exactly. Of course they have a filipina wife and have the stuff in the wife's name, but I don't see that as any reason to stop a business from profiting.

I know people that live in the Bukidnon area near the pineapple plantations, which is not so awfully far from Cagayan de Oro. It should be criminal what they pay the workers there. These folks haven't many options and have to eat, and these owners know this and pay slave wages. I have a friend that worked at Rebisco. Standing on the line for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, just a big fan to combat the heat and humidity, all for about 120 dollars a month. And she thought that was a good job. But not much for a family to live on. Domestics get about 1500 pesos a month and their employers really work them, taking care of the kids, all housework, cooking and so forth. It's really sad, kids have to sometimes quit going to school to help out, this as early as about 10 or 12 years old. I know a gal that has been working since she was 7. And people over here riot, whine and moan, let's see them walk the walk over there. There is no safety net at all. They don't know how much worse it could be. I know a lot about how the poor live there and how they struggle. They are good people that try hard and are not afraid of difficult work.
 
Old 09-22-2014, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,021 posts, read 896,670 times
Reputation: 736
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd00 View Post
I know people that live in the Bukidnon area near the pineapple plantations, which is not so awfully far from Cagayan de Oro. It should be criminal what they pay the workers there. These folks haven't many options and have to eat, and these owners know this and pay slave wages. I have a friend that worked at Rebisco. Standing on the line for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, just a big fan to combat the heat and humidity, all for about 120 dollars a month. And she thought that was a good job. But not much for a family to live on. Domestics get about 1500 pesos a month and their employers really work them, taking care of the kids, all housework, cooking and so forth. It's really sad, kids have to sometimes quit going to school to help out, this as early as about 10 or 12 years old. I know a gal that has been working since she was 7. And people over here riot, whine and moan, let's see them walk the walk over there. There is no safety net at all. They don't know how much worse it could be. I know a lot about how the poor live there and how they struggle. They are good people that try hard and are not afraid of difficult work.
PH is not known for hourly pay but daily. In Manila, the daily wage is around P470 ($11) and in Cagayan de Oro it is P270 for plantation workers so that 120 dollars a month you mentioned is within the minimum wage as per the Department of Labor. Take note that these plantation workers do have a "pakyawan" commision or bulk commission apart from the daily wage. Personally, the salary is good enough for a family of 5 as far as the COL is concern in that province.

It is not employers problem if they have workers with 10 kids and some has to quit schooling. Basic education in the Philippines is free. I see greed on the workers part to have their kids on these plantations as well. But as far as I know, this is illegal as per the law and employers might be charged.
 
Old 09-23-2014, 01:10 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,172,752 times
Reputation: 11619
Quote:
Originally Posted by todd00 View Post
Ya lower cost of living, but look out for those typhoons and not much of a place to run too if they strike. I can't see people flocking there unless they have family there, are married to a filipina, or hope to find a source for cheap slave labor. And blood suckers, they already have plenty of. If the doors were open, you might find older people that can no longer live a middle class life here moving there. But they wouldn't be opening businesses and setting the world on fire, they would be paying some young gal practically nothing to wait on them hand and foot.

If you opened the doors, it wouldn't benefit the average poor man at all. But there would be a few vultures trying to take advantage of them for sure. And the government is still corrupt as hell and really cares nothing for the people. So maybe the government crooks and the new imports with money might profit, but it wouldn't help the average poor person. I read about expats that moved there, many retired and have a bit of money that have gone there to live. They seem to like the easy pace and their life there but I read some joke about the perils of trying to start a profitable business there, wish I could recall it exactly. Of course they have a filipina wife and have the stuff in the wife's name, but I don't see that as any reason to stop a business from profiting.

I know people that live in the Bukidnon area near the pineapple plantations, which is not so awfully far from Cagayan de Oro. It should be criminal what they pay the workers there. These folks haven't many options and have to eat, and these owners know this and pay slave wages. I have a friend that worked at Rebisco. Standing on the line for 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, just a big fan to combat the heat and humidity, all for about 120 dollars a month. And she thought that was a good job. But not much for a family to live on. Domestics get about 1500 pesos a month and their employers really work them, taking care of the kids, all housework, cooking and so forth. It's really sad, kids have to sometimes quit going to school to help out, this as early as about 10 or 12 years old. I know a gal that has been working since she was 7. And people over here riot, whine and moan, let's see them walk the walk over there. There is no safety net at all. They don't know how much worse it could be. I know a lot about how the poor live there and how they struggle. They are good people that try hard and are not afraid of difficult work.
And this is why they are poor. Poor people work hard, middle class and up work smart
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