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Old 09-16-2014, 03:49 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Should the Philippines (or Indonesia or Malaysia) invite 50 or 100 million permanent immigrants from Europe/USA/Aus?

I routinely see that throughout the world, everyone insists that of Japan and Europe, that for them to be even wealthier and more amazing, that they are absolutely required to open up their doors and borders and invite in 50 to 100 million or so non-Europeans and non-Japanese.

Yet, as much as much of the world really insists on this. How come we never hear a poor Asian country coming up with this 'idea' to make themselves 'wealthy'? Usually the argument is that only people from an even poorer country would come. Well, what if they did? What if that happened and people paid the immigrants even lower wages than locals, wouldn't the wealthy elite of that poor country really prosper than, just like those wealthy elites do in the wealthy countries? Wouldn't that be great for their economy? (I think we'd all say that was disastrous, but that is what most people insist that Japan/Europe MUST do, invite all these non-locals as cheaper labor, and watch their own people become jobless and suffer).

What if poor country X instead invited 50 or 100 million Americans or Europeans instead? They'd readily come for the poorly paid labor they could hire and give jobs too. They'd create companies and wealth for the politicians and elites already there. Instead of immigrants having to move across the world to X country, why not bring those same employer types to the country of origin instead? They could transform the Philippines or Indonesia or wherever else? I'd think the same argument would be, but that than Indonesia wouldn't be Indonesia anymore! But, isn't that a hypocritical statement to say that the Philippines or Indonesia or Asia country Y should never invite immigrants over, but Japan and Europe absolutely must, or they are considered racist and closed? Why is it always a one-way street?

 
Old 09-16-2014, 04:02 AM
 
Location: Phoenix
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Tiger Beer, sorry to say that you're missing the point big time here. Simple economics, law of supply and demand, will answer all your questions.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 04:40 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_moore View Post
Tiger Beer, sorry to say that you're missing the point big time here. Simple economics, law of supply and demand, will answer all your questions.
People in poor countries need jobs, wealth, employers, etc.

There is certainly a demand to be met with the idea. There are tons of Americans/Europeans who'd probably go, if the doors were open for them to emigrate. They'd revolutionize the economies, for sure.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 07:25 AM
 
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I certainly do not agree with letting in millions of poor, low skilled, under skilled immigrants into Japan, South Korea, or even Europe. But, this is the Asia forum so let's keep it to Japan and SK. There would be little benefit from massive immigration into Japan or South Korea. I agree with you, Tiger Beer, as I've made the point many times before, these countries are massively overpopulated relative to their size, geography, and resource capacity. It's also interesting that most of the people making these arguments that Japan and SK should open their borders, are Asians from outside of Japan and SK?

Singapore is a very immigrant oriented society, and the locals are already starting to have enough of so many foreigners coming in. IMO, Singapore and the Philippines are different animals to the rest of Asia. Singapore is an artificially created state, it's not organic like, say, Japan, Singapore is a byproduct 100% of British colonialism. There is no such thing as an "ethnic Singaporean". Economics are important, but so are the environment and culture of a country. To be honest, it annoys me when Filipinos want to emigrate en masse to every country on Earth. We already have well over a million Filipinos here, now we have posters thinking that SK and Japan should modify their immigration policies to, conveniently, allow a million or two more Filipinos to emigrate to there coincidence? IMO, countries that are not traditionally immigrant societies should not be in the business of importing foreigners en masse. On the other hand, I do not hold the same views for most of the Americas, where almost every country has lost its indigenous cultures and transformed over hundreds of years into immigrant societies, of varying degrees, vis--vis the U.S. In these countries, it is permissable to have higher proportions of foreigners in these countries, where the local culture is made up of other cultures welded into one.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 07:28 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,188,447 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
People in poor countries need jobs, wealth, employers, etc.

There is certainly a demand to be met with the idea. There are tons of Americans/Europeans who'd probably go, if the doors were open for them to emigrate. They'd revolutionize the economies, for sure.
I do not think so, Tiger Beer. Western Europe has some of the lowest levels of emigration in the world, and most western Europeans emigrate because they desire warmer climates, not because of economics. Same applies for Americans, our emigration rate is actually very low. Sure you're always going to have a couple hundred thousand who migrate for adventure, like you did, but your average American will not move out of the US
 
Old 09-16-2014, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Macao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I do not think so, Tiger Beer. Western Europe has some of the lowest levels of emigration in the world, and most western Europeans emigrate because they desire warmer climates, not because of economics. Same applies for Americans, our emigration rate is actually very low. Sure you're always going to have a couple hundred thousand who migrate for adventure, like you did, but your average American will not move out of the US
I definitely know what you're saying.

BUT...millions of Brits and Scandinavians are moving to Spain, Greece, etc. So, when the legal doors are open, people do consider, and even jump on, the offer.

Australia has quite open doors for British and Irish to emigrate to, and they more or less pour into Australia with the available opportunity.

I think it's difficult for Americans to consider, as there really isn't a country anywhere that makes it easy for Americans to emigrate into. I mean, Americans also entertain the idea of Europe or Australia, but when they seriously examine that option, the hurdle is a very large one to jump over. If there was a country out there that just said, "we're going to make it REAL easy on you," I wouldn't be surprised if would more people talked about it and consider it.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 12:40 PM
 
Location: La Muy Noble Leal Ciudad de Iloilo
190 posts, read 187,793 times
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It's already too late to make a dent now. Americans should have migrated to the Philippines when it was still American territory and a was severely under-populated vis-a-vis an America 20x more populous than it.

Plus, Europeans have lost their toughness and cannot bear to live in places like the Philippines anymore. Just look at South Africa alone, the white Afrikanners there are actually experiencing white-flight to Australia or the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_flight#South_Africa

About 800,000 out of an earlier total population of 5.2 million whites have left South Africa since 1995, according to a report from 2009. (Apartheid, a system of segregation of whites, blacks, and people of other races, had ended in 1994.) The country has suffered a high rate of violent crime, a primary stated reason for emigration. Other causes include attacks against white farmers, concern about being excluded by affirmative action programs, rolling blackouts in electrical supplies, and worries about corruption and autocratic political tendencies among new leaders. Since many of those who leave are highly educated, there are shortages of skilled personnel in the government, teaching, and other professional areas.

Even if the Philippines were to open it's doors tomorrow to Europe/USA/Aus.

Nobody would be interested. They weren't interested when conditions were much more favorable and easier for them in the past (When the Philippines was an American territory, the place was under-populated and American citizens were offered land-grants to go live in the Philippines), they sure as hell won't be interested when the situation had gotten much more difficult now.

Last edited by Selurong; 09-16-2014 at 12:50 PM..
 
Old 09-16-2014, 06:57 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,023 posts, read 898,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selurong View Post
Even if the Philippines were to open it's doors tomorrow to Europe/USA/Aus.

Nobody would be interested. They weren't interested when conditions were much more favorable and easier for them in the past (When the Philippines was an American territory, the place was under-populated and American citizens were offered land-grants to go live in the Philippines), they sure as hell won't be interested when the situation had gotten much more difficult now.
That is the reason why I said there is NO argument on this thread.

Japan has abundance of stable jobs even more predicted in the future but the population is shrinking/aging.

Philippines has abundance young workforce, but very less jobs.

If you were given an opportunity to be an immigrant on these 2 countries, where will you go? Japan or Philippines? It's a no contest, Japan. Add in the facor of safety, better infrastructure, better quality of life.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,023 posts, read 898,412 times
Reputation: 741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
People in poor countries need jobs, wealth, employers, etc.

There is certainly a demand to be met with the idea. There are tons of Americans/Europeans who'd probably go, if the doors were open for them to emigrate. They'd revolutionize the economies, for sure.
Well, the countries that you've mentioned (Indonesia, Philippines and Malaysia) has tight protectionist policy as far as the natural resources and local people are concerned. You can just go there and dig the resources.
 
Old 09-16-2014, 08:45 PM
 
352 posts, read 551,332 times
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There is also the factor that some rich countries are facing a population problem of declining population that will negatively impact their economies. Indonesia and Philippines have the opposite problem. They are already poor and have fast growing populations.
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