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Old 09-22-2014, 07:07 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,023 posts, read 899,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
It is EXTREMELY DIFFICULT to be accepted by top universities in China, and the same is true in Japan and Korea.
If someone wants to attend Peking University or Tsinghua University, he/she has to be a top 0.1% student in his province (unless he/she is from Beijing, then top 1% might work).

In China/Korea/Japan, attending a mediocre university means the future is doomed for most people. Therefore, many of them would rather go abroad.
I highly commend these Asian universities for catching up with US/UK top universities interms of curiculum, research, faculty, facilities etc...However, I found these universities so overrated when it comes to the graduate they produce. I've worked with several interns/engineer colleagues graduated from Tsinghua, HKUST, NUS and NTU... they are good though but nothing extraordinary. Best engineers I worked with are the young graduates of Russia.

Currently, I am working with an executive with a professorial experience in one of China's best universities but moved to US 25 years ago shifting to high-tech industry. He said, he loves to teach but he found most of chinese students to be of lack of motivation. I uttered, same applies to other Asian students (or atleast students in the Philippines). Studying is like a rat race, everything is about achieving a passing or good grades.
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:22 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,435 posts, read 16,486,722 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
China and India are not rich,but they have great unis.

There are many great unis in Asia,Tokyo University is probably within top 30 in the world or something.Top universities in Japan,HK,Singapore,South Korea,China,and India are just as great as those in the US.
If china is "not rich", why are they buying up so much of our prime real estate in our biggest cities? Maybe, this gives me a mistaken impression that they are super rich? I just naturally assume that a rich country would naturally invest heavily in their higher educational system, especially since they seem to export so many of their students to the US. Don't they have any interest in keeping their "best and brightest" in their home countries?
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:59 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,023 posts, read 899,953 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
If china is "not rich", why are they buying up so much of our prime real estate in our biggest cities? Maybe, this gives me a mistaken impression that they are super rich? I just naturally assume that a rich country would naturally invest heavily in their higher educational system, especially since they seem to export so many of their students to the US. Don't they have any interest in keeping their "best and brightest" in their home countries?
Some people perceived country as "rich" when they have high GDP per capita or atleast included in OECD. China do not belong to OECD and the GDP per capita is still far below compared with the developed country.

But the country itself is "super rich", major exporter to the world, one of the leading innovators, huge contribution to world's economy, 2nd to to US when it comes to GDP.
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,897 posts, read 5,285,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
The best universities in Asia, are consistently in Japan, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Korea (which would probably equal 'the rich countries').

Since you asked about China and India. China has a few prestigious ones up there like Peking University and Tsinghua University. India doesn't rank very high at all, but I'm sure there is still an internal ranking there.

What generally happens in ASIA, is that the BEST ones are MOST COMPETITIVE. Not all the students can get into the best universities. Going to a lesser known university in Asia, kind of sets you on a much lower career track. However, this can be circumvented by studying in the United States. Almost any American institution will automatically put you up to a higher status than a very mediocre Asian university.

ADDITIONALLY, Americans do very little schoolwork in K-12, however American universities are generally well-known as great learning environments. In countries like Japan and Korea its pretty much the opposite. The High School years in particular, students in Korea and Japan might be studying every night until midnight easily. Once they get into college, those are their 'easy years', where they socialize, have fun, and take it easy until the rigorous real world career begins. In essence, this makes lesser-known universities even worse as far as reputation goes. However, competitive Asian universities will just be as rigorous as their American counterparts.

In short, it's because of their extreme competitiveness in Japan and Korea, in particular. I will assume China might be similar. The entrance exams are almost suicide machines in Japan and Korea, that is how competitive. If they cannot get into the best universities, they can bring some great shame to themselves and their families. However, studying in the U.S. can make up for this. Not only that, but in countries like South Korea, there are so many entry job requirements with a certain English ability needed just to be employed. So, going abroad can help achieve that otherwise difficult and costly goal as well.
Agree with much of the previous post. Hard to generalize. Asian universities are getting better and better. However, six factors prevent them from ascending to the top ranks.

1. As stated above, the real pressure cookers are the pre-university and university entrance exams. And yes, for many university is a time to chill (though not like it used to be).

2. In some countries, the top students in Asia head to the West for undergraduate study, often on government scholarships.

3. Universities are integral parts of the nationalistic propaganda machinery. One can be critical of all other countries and religions(and encouraged to be so), save your own. Also, faculty tenure follows suit. True scholarship and contributions are weighted very differently with the biggest fear of not controlling the ethnic, racial or national make up of faculty. All countries do this, but in Asia it is particularly bad.

4. Students, already risk-averse after the brutal entrance exam process, are equally risk averse in university. They are punished for risk and rewarded for middle of the road submissions and efforts. They are masters of the MCQ. And Faculty, especially if local, simply reinforce the status quo.

5. Universities are only beginning to get a handle on what it means to mint PhDs. The culture is not yet there. As such the Ph.D. talent is nowhere near as good as those Asian students who are getting their Ph.D.'s in the West (although many have fine skills).

6. Universities are not very international, either in make-u, structure or ethos.

However, across all six, Asia has made remarkable progress.

There are of course exceptions. Japan has great research programs, though they are very Japanese in all respects. The Chinese undergrads that head to the West for grad school clearly had rigorous undergrad years. The SE Asian countries are up and coming with many fine students, undergrad and grad.

S.

Last edited by Sandpointian; 09-22-2014 at 09:35 PM..
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:33 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,897 posts, read 5,285,662 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strad View Post
I think if you do a google search to see the world's top ranked universities you will see that most rankings have the US and the UK dominating the top 20 with The University of Tokyo typically being the only Asian university in the top 20. Once you get past 20 though, a lot more Asian universities start showing up. Kyoto University, National University of Singapore, Seoul National University, Tsinghua University, Peking University, The University of Hong Kong, the Hong Kong University of Science and Technology, Osaka University, Korea Advanced Institute of Science and Technology, and the National University of Taiwan all typically rank in the world's top 50.

As mentioned above, universities in Asia are SUPER competitive and SUPER hard to get into though as there are relatively few of them compared to the population of Asia, so it is no surprise that western universities get a lot of Asian students.
Please do not pay much attention to rankings. They are utter crap, whether they are US News or QS. They are meaningless to grad students, to faculty, to employers and to undergrads.

The only hing of value they provide is a focal point to which talented students thinking the rankings matter work their butts off and self-select. But more casually talented students are in no way better going to these top ranked programs nor worse off by going to a lesser known schools that can offer an excellent education.

Truly globalized universities and assessments are in their embryonic state.

US news and World Report makes more money of its utterly stupid rankings along than probably any magazine in the world. And QS? A clumsy and obvious way to up the ranking of UK universities. Silly and insulting to all the great universities that find themselves down on the list.

Disclosure my undergrad and grad programs were ranked #1 when I was there. Truly meaningless.
S.
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:39 PM
 
6,730 posts, read 6,619,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_moore View Post
I highly commend these Asian universities for catching up with US/UK top universities interms of curiculum, research, faculty, facilities etc...However, I found these universities so overrated when it comes to the graduate they produce. I've worked with several interns/engineer colleagues graduated from Tsinghua, HKUST, NUS and NTU... they are good though but nothing extraordinary. Best engineers I worked with are the young graduates of Russia.

Currently, I am working with an executive with a professorial experience in one of China's best universities but moved to US 25 years ago shifting to high-tech industry. He said, he loves to teach but he found most of chinese students to be of lack of motivation. I uttered, same applies to other Asian students (or atleast students in the Philippines). Studying is like a rat race, everything is about achieving a passing or good grades.
Very few Tsinghua graduates go to work immediately after graduating. Most (over 70%) attend graduate school either in China or in the US. However, many may not have passion on what they are doing.
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Old 09-22-2014, 09:41 PM
 
6,730 posts, read 6,619,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_moore View Post
I highly commend these Asian universities for catching up with US/UK top universities interms of curiculum, research, faculty, facilities etc...However, I found these universities so overrated when it comes to the graduate they produce. I've worked with several interns/engineer colleagues graduated from Tsinghua, HKUST, NUS and NTU... they are good though but nothing extraordinary. Best engineers I worked with are the young graduates of Russia.

Currently, I am working with an executive with a professorial experience in one of China's best universities but moved to US 25 years ago shifting to high-tech industry. He said, he loves to teach but he found most of chinese students to be of lack of motivation. I uttered, same applies to other Asian students (or atleast students in the Philippines). Studying is like a rat race, everything is about achieving a passing or good grades.
Very few Tsinghua graduates go to work immediately after graduating. Most (over 70%) attend graduate school either in China or in the US. However, many may not have passion on what they are doing. What they are good at may not be what employers really want either.
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Old 09-22-2014, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Phoenix
1,023 posts, read 899,953 times
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^The ones I've worked/been working with have either PhD or masters from Tsinghua U. My boss is very biased from these graduates.

Or maybe those excellent ones went to US and the so so ones went to Singapore or stay in China?
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:44 AM
 
6,730 posts, read 6,619,367 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_moore View Post
^The ones I've worked/been working with have either PhD or masters from Tsinghua U. My boss is very biased from these graduates.

Or maybe those excellent ones went to US and the so so ones went to Singapore or stay in China?
Graduate and undergraduate students of Tsinghua are not considered the same (unless overlapping).
Sometimes the employers require the candidates to have an undergraduate degree from certain schools, even if they have a PhD from such schools already. But usually these are research or teaching positions.

Most top students go to the US, but not all.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:52 AM
 
Location: Macao
15,951 posts, read 36,206,900 times
Reputation: 9493
I wonder if our OP will ever come back and visit the Forum again?
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