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Old 09-26-2014, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,905 posts, read 5,299,172 times
Reputation: 3093

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent_moore View Post
I highly commend these Asian universities for catching up with US/UK top universities interms of curiculum, research, faculty, facilities etc...However, I found these universities so overrated when it comes to the graduate they produce. I've worked with several interns/engineer colleagues graduated from Tsinghua, HKUST, NUS and NTU... they are good though but nothing extraordinary. Best engineers I worked with are the young graduates of Russia.

Currently, I am working with an executive with a professorial experience in one of China's best universities but moved to US 25 years ago shifting to high-tech industry. He said, he loves to teach but he found most of chinese students to be of lack of motivation. I uttered, same applies to other Asian students (or atleast students in the Philippines). Studying is like a rat race, everything is about achieving a passing or good grades.
THanks for this post.

I would say that most employers will be disappointed with 80% of college grads. I think that is the case across countries, including in the West.

The interesting thing to me is how the identification of those top 20% varies from country to country. In places like the US, the liberal arts curriculum of universities, the emphasis on work experience and research, a thorough interview and vetting process, and sorting by various mechanisms tends to allow the cream to rise to the top and perhaps more tellingly to not allow the brain dead to be considered as best in show. This was not my experience at one particular university Asia.

My top reasons.
1) Plagiarism is a almost cultural in how it dominates the lives of professors. In fact, I once had a colleague that knowingly allowed students to plagiarize because "at least they wrote something." Authenticity and personal branding are rare, leading to interviews of carbon copies.

2) Writing and critical thinking are not major focuses. This leads to dreadfully shallow interviews even among top students.

3) Admin, local faculty and students alike are obsessed with grades and ranking and not on scholarship and intellectual contributions. There are a few exceptions, but very few. Most of those end up in the West. The culture that is created is not one of love for subject but pride of Darwinian survival.This has major bearing on how students interview.

4) Research and independent study are strongly discouraged. Both place extra demands on institutional time.

5) In modern Asia, you are defined by your affiliation not by you as an individual. If you are at a high school/junior college, people want to know which secondary school you came from; in university, high school/junior college you came from. In the that first interview, which university you went to is of utmost important. Once fully in the working world, which previous companies you were at. This knowledge is not for casual conversation but for social and professional sorting. Students who do not have the "glow" of the top last place are considered second class citizens. It is amazing to behold, this willingness to dismiss the near entirety of a student based on certain markers, almost all of which are utterly useless as indicators of talent

6) The university culture resembled hat of US high schools in social maturity. Men are boys and women are girls. This is largely because local high schools are like US junior highs, etc.

7) Faculty have little say in the promotion of students. Those that do contribute input are not divested individual voices.

8) University Admin seem to have no clue on their educational mission. They cut and paste mission statements and are clueless on how to structure and develop a university. Why? Universities are public institutions (even the private ones) and part of nation building.

To top high school students and ambitious or creative Asian youth, I would suggest to high tail it out of dodge and to go to the West where your talents and creativity will be disproportionately rewarded.

S.
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Old 09-26-2014, 10:43 AM
 
6,741 posts, read 6,647,110 times
Reputation: 2388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandpointian View Post
THanks for this post.

I would say that most employers will be disappointed with 80% of college grads. I think that is the case across countries, including in the West.

The interesting thing to me is how the identification of those top 20% varies from country to country. In places like the US, the liberal arts curriculum of universities, the emphasis on work experience and research, a thorough interview and vetting process, and sorting by various mechanisms tends to allow the cream to rise to the top and perhaps more tellingly to not allow the brain dead to be considered as best in show. This was not my experience at one particular university Asia.

My top reasons.
1) Plagiarism is a almost cultural in how it dominates the lives of professors. In fact, I once had a colleague that knowingly allowed students to plagiarize because "at least they wrote something." Authenticity and personal branding are rare, leading to interviews of carbon copies.

2) Writing and critical thinking are not major focuses. This leads to dreadfully shallow interviews even among top students.

3) Admin, local faculty and students alike are obsessed with grades and ranking and not on scholarship and intellectual contributions. There are a few exceptions, but very few. Most of those end up in the West. The culture that is created is not one of love for subject but pride of Darwinian survival.This has major bearing on how students interview.

4) Research and independent study are strongly discouraged. Both place extra demands on institutional time.

5) In modern Asia, you are defined by your affiliation not by you as an individual. If you are at a high school/junior college, people want to know which secondary school you came from; in university, high school/junior college you came from. In the that first interview, which university you went to is of utmost important. Once fully in the working world, which previous companies you were at. This knowledge is not for casual conversation but for social and professional sorting. Students who do not have the "glow" of the top last place are considered second class citizens. It is amazing to behold, this willingness to dismiss the near entirety of a student based on certain markers, almost all of which are utterly useless as indicators of talent

6) The university culture resembled hat of US high schools in social maturity. Men are boys and women are girls. This is largely because local high schools are like US junior highs, etc.

7) Faculty have little say in the promotion of students. Those that do contribute input are not divested individual voices.

8) University Admin seem to have no clue on their educational mission. They cut and paste mission statements and are clueless on how to structure and develop a university. Why? Universities are public institutions (even the private ones) and part of nation building.

To top high school students and ambitious or creative Asian youth, I would suggest to high tail it out of dodge and to go to the West where your talents and creativity will be disproportionately rewarded.

S.
Basically I agree.
In short, it is largely because there are too many people in Asia and things are more competitive. If you receive 1000 resumes, you won't have time to check every one of them and naturally a safe way is to pick those from top schools.

Also, college admission in Asia is very "objective". In China it is almost 100% based on college entrance exam, unless you have a gold medal in Mathematics Olympics. There is no way and no point to show your other talents. Asian people do not trust talkative persons either, so the culture is different.
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Old 09-26-2014, 04:33 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,391,822 times
Reputation: 15501
Bangkok can rightfully boast of some of the region's first rate universities, such as
  • Thammasat University
  • Chulalongkorn University
  • Rajamangala University
  • King Mongkut University of Technology
Personally, I work at an American "Ivy League" university that is arguably the oldest university in the United States with a extremely distinguished past and a gorgeous historic campus. We are being deluged with Asian applicants from India, China, Japan, Korea, and elsewhere ... but not because the education here is so exceptional or unmatched, but rather because the Ivy League has a kind of "cachet" and snob appeal that some wealthier Asian families seem to salivate over. It's kind of like Oxford and Cambridge.

History, fame, cachet, and traditions can be a powerful draw for foreign students. Doesn't mean you can't get a superb education at home.
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Old 09-26-2014, 05:05 PM
 
6,741 posts, read 6,647,110 times
Reputation: 2388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Park View Post
Bangkok can rightfully boast of some of the region's first rate universities, such as
  • Thammasat University
  • Chulalongkorn University
  • Rajamangala University
  • King Mongkut University of Technology
Personally, I work at an American "Ivy League" university that is arguably the oldest university in the United States with a extremely distinguished past and a gorgeous historic campus. We are being deluged with Asian applicants from India, China, Japan, Korea, and elsewhere ... but not because the education here is so exceptional or unmatched, but rather because the Ivy League has a kind of "cachet" and snob appeal that some wealthier Asian families seem to salivate over. It's kind of like Oxford and Cambridge.

History, fame, cachet, and traditions can be a powerful draw for foreign students. Doesn't mean you can't get a superb education at home.
Penn? I heard half of the students there study business. Is that true?
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Old 09-26-2014, 08:46 PM
 
Location: University City, Philadelphia
22,592 posts, read 12,391,822 times
Reputation: 15501
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Penn? I heard half of the students there study business. Is that true?
Yes and no. Certainly not half. The Wharton School of Business at Penn recently reclaimed, according to US News & World Report, the position of #1 business school in the world. The Law School, Penn Law, comes in at #7. As an overall Ivy League University, however, Penn always comes behind Harvard, Princeton, and Yale in other disciplines. We are very strong in medical science and research and also computer science and technology (the world's first electronic computers - the ENIAC and the UNIVAC - were invented here.)
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Old 09-29-2014, 11:56 PM
 
Location: San Antonio Texas
11,434 posts, read 16,520,275 times
Reputation: 5224
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiger Beer View Post
The OP will never come back to educate himself on this, and will probably continue to perpetuate his original myths.
Do Asian universities admit foreign students?
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Old 09-30-2014, 12:22 AM
 
502 posts, read 464,232 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by wehotex View Post
Do Asian universities admit foreign students?
Yes.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:35 AM
 
12 posts, read 8,647 times
Reputation: 10
Well i think if you will do googling then you will get to know about too many best ranked universities and colleges in asia..a lot of students came to study from abroad to asian countries.
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Old 09-30-2014, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Abu Dhabi, UAE
143 posts, read 152,993 times
Reputation: 104
Aside from Japan, I don't think the higher education in any other countries in Asia is that impressive. We built a semi-submersible oil drilling and production platform in a Korea shipyard. Most of the site engineers are well trained and have credible experiences. It is their boss that I found no worthy connections. The reason he got this manager job is the networking which he made during his college days at Seoul National University. The guy lacked common senses and it was not a pleasant to deal with.

When we built another platform for Bohai bay, we had to send most of the local electrical engineers to job related training classes. They may have a lot of theoritical knowledges, but no practical experiences.

So I heard that acadamic prestige has been improved drastically since the early 2000s for the Asian universities.
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Old 09-30-2014, 01:51 PM
 
183 posts, read 210,959 times
Reputation: 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by EPKS View Post
Aside from Japan, I don't think the higher education in any other countries in Asia is that impressive. We built a semi-submersible oil drilling and production platform in a Korea shipyard. Most of the site engineers are well trained and have credible experiences. It is their boss that I found no worthy connections. The reason he got this manager job is the networking which he made during his college days at Seoul National University. The guy lacked common senses and it was not a pleasant to deal with.

When we built another platform for Bohai bay, we had to send most of the local electrical engineers to job related training classes. They may have a lot of theoritical knowledges, but no practical experiences.

So I heard that acadamic prestige has been improved drastically since the early 2000s for the Asian universities.
I got my Masters from Columbia and work for an American company, and have met plenty of idiots with an Ivy degree. By your reasoning, top-notch American university education is crap as well.
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