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Old 10-07-2014, 06:40 PM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,597,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Keeping in mind, as well, that the CCP itself is founded on Western ideology. So, if Bettafish doesn't want a "Western" style government in China, then maybe he should help China go back to monarchy as its form of government. Let's also keep in mind that a Western style democracy is the reason why Japan is the most prosperous country in Asia, even if they retained their 天王
Western ideology is better than old ideology of China, yes.
But it is not the ultimate goal and is not a necessary step.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:42 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
Thank you for saying this. I was really confused at one point when Bettafish kept saying China will never import any ideas from the West when they took Communism from Karl Marx.
Stop twisting my words.
I keep saying China will learn from the west, but not copy. China is already unique and will remain that way.

When China copied the Soviet Union, a disaster took place.
If China just wants to copy, it does not deserve to be a super power.
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Old 10-07-2014, 06:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheArchitect View Post
Those nations began to emerge before they were true democracies but realized that democratization was necessary on order to take the next step to higher prosperity. China is at the point where if it wants to realized its full potential, it has to evolve beyond its current authoritarian government structure.

And you still haven't specified what exactly you mean by "western" regarding government. No two western democracies are identical in any way except the existence of multiple parties, a judiciary that is independent and respect for human rights.

So your constant reference to "western" can only indicate an aversion to one of these three traits as they are the only shared among all democratic nations and there exists great diversity within these.

If I am wrong about your being against any of the above mentioned common democratic attributes, do correct me and specify what then exactly do you mean by western. And explain why it ought not be something China adopts.
In short, every two leaves in the world are different but you can still tell maple leaves from oak leaves.
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Old 10-07-2014, 07:46 PM
 
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so, how would you define the fine line between "copy" and "learning from"? When is too much? When is too little? And who has the power to tell 1.3 billion people what to learn and not learn, what to copy and not copy? At the moment, the sole decision maker and judge for 1.3 billion people is the CCP, specifically the Party Central Committee and the Politburo Standing Committee (7 mysterious old men who have impeccably dyed hair).

At the moment, if I wanted to "learn" from the West and publish my views on my personal Weibo account, I could easily be endowed with a friendly visit from State Security, and be facing a series of charges including the infamous "Subversion of State Power" charge and an automatic 10 year sentence at Qincheng Prison outside Beijing.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:20 PM
 
48,516 posts, read 83,880,155 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I don't really know French politics so I can't comment on that lol.

But if "HK was better when Mao was in power" is their slogan, then I guess they're just trying to fool those that don't know when HK was handed back to China.
Yep; China under Moa wasn't far behind North Vietnam.
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Old 10-07-2014, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Earth
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I guess it could be worse. China could be an islamic republic.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:22 PM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,597,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
so, how would you define the fine line between "copy" and "learning from"? When is too much? When is too little? And who has the power to tell 1.3 billion people what to learn and not learn, what to copy and not copy? At the moment, the sole decision maker and judge for 1.3 billion people is the CCP, specifically the Party Central Committee and the Politburo Standing Committee (7 mysterious old men who have impeccably dyed hair).

At the moment, if I wanted to "learn" from the West and publish my views on my personal Weibo account, I could easily be endowed with a friendly visit from State Security, and be facing a series of charges including the infamous "Subversion of State Power" charge and an automatic 10 year sentence at Qincheng Prison outside Beijing.
If you post something anti-CCP online, it will just be deleted if some operator sees it. In fact anti-CCP comments are posted by some bored people every day, and you will see a lot if you visit baidu tieba or tianya.

No one will arrest you unless you are very influential like Liu Xiaob, or keep doing so for a very long time and caused some problems. You do not qualify for Qincheng either, because it is for high profile persons and you are far from that. I don't know where you got those horrible stories.

Politics is one of the most complicated things in the world and there is no simple answer. China is doing ok now. It is impossible to satisfy 1.3 billion people but most are satisfied so far. Chinese people and government officials are better educated than before. Give them more time.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:33 PM
 
117 posts, read 64,128 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
Exactly. Marxism, Leninism, and the "Communist Party" itself are all imports from the west. There is absolutely nothing Chinese about those foreign ideas things, but somehow they've treated as sacred "Chinese characteristics" by the CCP. At the very least, if the CCP wants to import a western political ideology, import something that is actually practical other than the outdated rants from Marx and Lenin. But of course, we all know that the CCP would never do that itself, because all those other "western" political values would require them to share power with other political entities and be subject to competition and checks and balances.

CCP proclaims that it could perform all those "auxiliary" functions all on its own. Afterall, we have the National People's Congress (the celebrities and billionaires who raise their hands on all CCP laws) and the People's Political Consultative Conference (the Party retirees who clap their hands). And to all those who claim that China is an autocratic dictatorship - what dictatorship?? After all, we still have 8 democratic parties that form a so-called "United Front" clapping and cheering for us at every turn (key words: clapping and cheering)

IV. The System of Multi-Party Cooperation and Political Consultation
Nope, you got it wrong. Don't talk about thing that you don't even have a clue of

China don't practice communist ideals anymore. After Mao's period, communism was dead. Today China political and economic structures are based on meritocratic system,realism and practical-ism, running more like a corpoartion. You move up the ladder base on your performances and efforts. It was started by Deng in the 1980. It is probably the most unique system in the world.
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Old 10-07-2014, 09:39 PM
 
117 posts, read 64,128 times
Reputation: 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
so, how would you define the fine line between "copy" and "learning from"? When is too much? When is too little? And who has the power to tell 1.3 billion people what to learn and not learn, what to copy and not copy? At the moment, the sole decision maker and judge for 1.3 billion people is the CCP, specifically the Party Central Committee and the Politburo Standing Committee (7 mysterious old men who have impeccably dyed hair).

At the moment, if I wanted to "learn" from the West and publish my views on my personal Weibo account, I could easily be endowed with a friendly visit from State Security, and be facing a series of charges including the infamous "Subversion of State Power" charge and an automatic 10 year sentence at Qincheng Prison outside Beijing.
Nope, you can speak anything freely in China.

Come on, Kid, don't say something that you don't even a clue of. In China, no ones really care about politics. Politics is a western thing.
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Old 10-07-2014, 10:17 PM
 
6,722 posts, read 6,597,578 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
Nope, you got it wrong. Don't talk about thing that you don't even have a clue of

China don't practice communist ideals anymore. After Mao's period, communism was dead. Today China political and economic structures are based on meritocratic system,realism and practical-ism, running more like a corpoartion. You move up the ladder base on your performances and efforts. It was started by Deng in the 1980. It is probably the most unique system in the world.
Good point. Chinese leaders are selected by their predecessors or supervisors, exactly like a corporation.
Corporations have a very limited amount of democracy, and low level employees have next to zero power. But, they could be promoted if they do well. If it is a fair company, everyone has a chance to be promoted.
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