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Old 10-02-2014, 09:58 AM
 
6,725 posts, read 6,601,290 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyqueen801 View Post
My daughter is in China. She said the news in Shanghai reported that the reason so many people are in Hong Kong was because they all showed up for the National Day celebration. They also shut down Instagram.
Some people gathered to celebrate the National Day too. Hong Kong always has some pro-government people. Of course official news in China will focus on them.
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Old 10-02-2014, 10:54 AM
 
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I'm glad that China was able to regain itself after being carved up like steak by the imperialists from Britain, France, and Japan in the 19th century, but what good is that victory when the CCP itself is only a little better than the imperialist occupying forces? It's almost like a hollow victory, China's regained status was built on the backs of CCP government deaths and violence.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:09 AM
 
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Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
I'm glad that China was able to regain itself after being carved up like steak by the imperialists from Britain, France, and Japan in the 19th century, but what good is that victory when the CCP itself is only a little better than the imperialist occupying forces? It's almost like a hollow victory, China's regained status was built on the backs of CCP government deaths and violence.
At that time, many poor countries saw communism as a solution to their problems, not just China.

Although communism failed, it had some advantages in some aspects compared to the old system of China. Capitalism also failed in most of Africa and most of Asia.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:13 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
At that time, many poor countries saw communism as a solution to their problems, not just China.

Although communism failed, it had some advantages in some aspects compared to the old system of China. Capitalism also failed in most of Africa and most of Asia.
Anyway, the Communist Party of China is really 'communist' (when it comes to economic policies) in name only today. Younger folks don't really believe China is communist now.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by silverkris View Post
Anyway, the Communist Party of China is really 'communist' (when it comes to economic policies) in name only today. Younger folks don't really believe China is communist now.
Marx predicted that communism will emerge after capitalism is fully developed. No matter his theory has some truth in it or not, the "communist" countries did not follow his way.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:34 AM
 
Location: NYC
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Originally Posted by pigeonhole View Post
In 1997 (the year HK was handed back to China), HK's GDP represented 18% of the People's Republic GDP.
AS of now it represents 3% of China's GDP.
So they can demonstrate all they want, they have no leverage and Beijing can choose to crush them if it wants to.
I doubt the Western Powers would try to enforce sanctions there as they tried to do for Russia over Ukraine (and it backfired miserably).
China is Hong Kong

According to that article above, the people of HK are mad because they lost their economic clout. However, the CCP shouldn't take comfort in this fact or use it to justify ignoring their demands. They should know the Chinese people are only tolerating the total lack of personal freedoms because of the drug of consumerism and economic prosperity. The entire country is just one economic downturn away from full scale chaos.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
Marx predicted that communism will emerge after capitalism is fully developed. No matter his theory has some truth in it or not, the "communist" countries did not follow his way.
Yep. Look at Russia today, the birth place of the first and most powerful communist egalitarian society... Marx and Lenin would be turning in their graves at the state of things in Russia under Putin. But that is another story for another day. Back to HK.
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Old 10-02-2014, 11:42 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Adhom View Post
China is Hong Kong

According to that article above, the people of HK are mad because they lost their economic clout. However, the CCP shouldn't take comfort in this fact or use it to justify ignoring their demands. They should know the Chinese people are only tolerating the total lack of personal freedoms because of the drug of consumerism and economic prosperity. The entire country is just one economic downturn away from full scale chaos.
I think that is an accurate assessment. Many democratic revolutions started in the past not due to overt political oppression (though it does contribute), but economic livelihood when life becomes unbearably harsh for the average Joe, such as sustained unemployment, high cost of living, shortages in food and basic necessities. Those things were a large contributing factor to USSR's collapse and failure of Gorbechev's economic reform program, but also one of the discontents by the Tiananmen protesters in 1989 (China in 1989 had high inflation, massive worker layoffs at state-owned enterprises, degrading social safety net, and rising corruption). All these economic and social conditions, compounded by authoritarian rule, form a perfect catalyst for large scale protests and calls for regime changes.
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Old 10-02-2014, 12:51 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,161,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
At that time, many poor countries saw communism as a solution to their problems, not just China.

Although communism failed, it had some advantages in some aspects compared to the old system of China. Capitalism also failed in most of Africa and most of Asia.
That is true, as did my grandmother's country, which she fled from to get away from communism.

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, corruption is still part of life in China, as it was during the last decades of the Qing dynasty, which greatly contributed to the beginning of China's downfall since the first Sino-Japanese War until the Communist Revolution. I think China will shed away it's authoritarian structure not long before HK's 50 years of freedom are up. It happened in East Germany (where my grandmother was from), it happened in South Korea, and in Taiwan. China is in a transition phase right now, and I can only hope China comes out better as a result.
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Old 10-02-2014, 01:14 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 2,177,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
That is true, as did my grandmother's country, which she fled from to get away from communism.

Yes, I agree. Unfortunately, corruption is still part of life in China, as it was during the last decades of the Qing dynasty, which greatly contributed to the beginning of China's downfall since the first Sino-Japanese War until the Communist Revolution. I think China will shed away it's authoritarian structure not long before HK's 50 years of freedom are up. It happened in East Germany (where my grandmother was from), it happened in South Korea, and in Taiwan. China is in a transition phase right now, and I can only hope China comes out better as a result.
Let's all hope so, though authoritarian governments have a tendency to be especially resilient/stubborn, like Fatty Kim III's little kingdom.
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