U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-15-2014, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,781 posts, read 5,139,654 times
Reputation: 4582

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
this fatty? Cameron, Merkel or Holland are not exactly fit or skinny either. I don't see the point of attacking one's weight. So childish.

Not every problem in China has a quick solution, but there are things that can be improved very fast, such as

internet censorship
news coverage
religious freedom
independent judicial system
political persecution

These do nothing in consolidating the Party's status, or helping the country's image. Give people such freedom, let them protest or whatever, won't be the end of the world.
We call the candidate of the upcoming mayoral election here a forced-fed pig. Fatty doesn't sound that bad now, does it?
And to think that Obama is called Barack Oralsex by some, lol.

Anyway if CCP is willing to loosen up a bit, all of them could be easily done(except for independent judicial system), but they just won't do it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-15-2014, 01:55 PM
 
6,730 posts, read 6,623,196 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
I am sure the rest of the world is just clamoring to use Baidu in place of Google, Weibo in place of Twitter, and RenRen in place of FB... give me a break. Why on earth would anyone want to use a heavily censored/castrated version when they could access the real thing without any filters... The only advantage that China might have is Alibaba's Taobao/TMall, and Alibaba was only successful because of its innovation as a privately owned company, not due to the benevolence of the Chinese state (thank god) or else Ma Yun wouldn't be ringing the opening bell in NYSE.
You sound like a typical fenqing but fact is fact. Baidu is the second largest search engine in the world.
They have some excellent products and very smart engineers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2014, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,781 posts, read 5,139,654 times
Reputation: 4582
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
You sound like a typical fenqing but fact is fact. Baidu is the second largest search engine in the world.
They have some excellent products and very smart engineers.
It is the second largest search engine in the world, he was just saying that it can't really break into other countries' markets because of censorship and all that jazz.
If one day India comes up with their one search engine then it'd be the third largest in the world. Both countries have ****load of people, everything Chinese or Indian would just be the second and the third largest, nothing surprising.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-15-2014, 11:37 PM
 
6,730 posts, read 6,623,196 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
If one day India comes up with their one search engine then it'd be the third largest in the world.
I doubt it. Educated Indians are too fluent in English and they would prefer searching for English documents, which Google already did a good job. However few educated Chinese are really comfortable with reading everything in English, and Baidu has an edge in Chinese language.

Baidu also has other products. For example, the message board "tieba" (one of the biggest social networks in China) allows users to post voice messages with a cell phone, and it is instant. Few if any major internet forums in the US do so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-16-2014, 07:12 PM
 
2,566 posts, read 2,187,612 times
Reputation: 1816
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
You sound like a typical fenqing but fact is fact. Baidu is the second largest search engine in the world.
They have some excellent products and very smart engineers.
I'm sure people in Africa, Europe, and South America are all lining up to use Baidu's fantastically censored search engine. Second largest only by virtue of being a nearly monopoly in a country with the highest population in the world- let me be CEO of Baidu I could make it 2nd largest as well.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2014, 01:13 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
I'm sure people in Africa, Europe, and South America are all lining up to use Baidu's fantastically censored search engine. Second largest only by virtue of being a nearly monopoly in a country with the highest population in the world- let me be CEO of Baidu I could make it 2nd largest as well.
haha, true, but having a large population in this case is indeed an advantage because that translates into bigger market and higher revenue.

From a different perspective, the fact that China accounts for 20% of world population using a different language means Google will never be able to get this huge market.

and you are wrong about Baidu being a nearly a monopoly. It accounts for 70% of the market, which is about the same of Google's market position in the US (67%). There is no regulation in China that forbids competition against Baidu.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2014, 01:30 PM
 
2,566 posts, read 2,187,612 times
Reputation: 1816
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
and you are wrong about Baidu being a nearly a monopoly. It accounts for 70% of the market, which is about the same of Google's market position in the US (67%). There is no regulation in China that forbids competition against Baidu.
That was in 2010 before Google quit China. Since then Baidu's market share (by revenue) in the Chinese search engine space has gone up to:

79.7% (2012)
80.6% (2013)
82.2% (2014 Q3)


Pretty impressive right? Baidu is really the most direct beneficiary in absence of Google.

Baidu's market share is followed by Google (with unpredictable service depending on China's political climate at the time of access), 360 Search, etc. Baidu is not a monopoly in the sense that it controls "100%" of the market share, but it certainly has the influence to exhibit monopolistic behavior if it chooses that route one day. There are no laws in China banning other search engines, but by default, the Communist Party's strict and highly complex online censorship regime (via State Council Info Office and the Ministry of Industry and Info Technology) gives domestic companies like Baidu an upper hand as they are much more willing to be in compliance with censorship policies (and actively practices self-censorship) than foreign search engines (as exhibited by Google's 2010 exit).

Citations:
http://online.barrons.com/articles/b...ile-1414214310
http://www.chinainternetwatch.com/10...arket-q3-2014/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2014, 02:04 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,289,596 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
That was in 2010 before Google quit China. Since then Baidu's market share (by revenue) in the Chinese search engine space has gone up to:

79.7% (2012)
80.6% (2013)
82.2% (2014 Q3)

Pretty impressive right? Baidu is really the most direct beneficiary in absence of Google.

Baidu's market share is followed by Google (with unpredictable service depending on China's political climate at the time of access), 360 Search, etc. Baidu is not a monopoly in the sense that it controls "100%" of the market share, but it certainly has the influence to exhibit monopolistic behavior if it chooses that route one day. There are no laws in China banning other search engines, but by default, the Communist Party's strict and highly complex online censorship regime (via State Council Info Office and the Ministry of Industry and Info Technology) gives domestic companies like Baidu an upper hand as they are much more willing to be in compliance with censorship policies (and actively practices self-censorship) than foreign search engines (as exhibited by Google's 2010 exit).

Citations:
Baidu Leaves Qihoo in Dust on Mobile - Barron's
China Search Engine Market Share in Q3 2014
why is that an issue?
Windows has a 92% market share in computer OS. Some companies have dominant market position. There is nothing corrupt about that. Here in Ontario, the government choose to monopolize alcohol sales completely.

I don't want to get into the censorship thing. (I don't support censorship). There is nothing wrong with Baidu cooperating with censorship - a company should create value for its shareholders, which means it need to adopt policies to maximize value. They are not in the business of fighting for freedom. It is google itself that has been arrogant and stupid in refusing to do that. You operate in one country, you live by that country's laws, no matter you agree with it or not. It is like if you go to Singapore you can't chew gums, because that's the law. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2014, 02:23 PM
 
2,566 posts, read 2,187,612 times
Reputation: 1816
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
why is that an issue?
Windows has a 92% market share in computer OS. Some companies have dominant market position. There is nothing corrupt about that. Here in Ontario, the government choose to monopolize alcohol sales completely.

I don't want to get into the censorship thing. (I don't support censorship). There is nothing wrong with Baidu cooperating with censorship - a company should create value for its shareholders, which means it need to adopt policies to maximize value. They are not in the business of fighting for freedom. It is google itself that has been arrogant and stupid in refusing to do that. You operate in one country, you live by that country's laws, no matter you agree with it or not. It is like if you go to Singapore you can't chew gums, because that's the law. Whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant.
I know, companies have no moral guidelines at all. It's just like how Deutsche Bahn cooperated with German government to prioritize shipping of Jews from West to East. Or how I.G. Farben was "pressured" by the German government to research, develop, and mass-produce Zyklon B. That's right, companies should just shut up, make money, regardless of how ridiculous, immoral, and unjust the laws are.

That is why Google is such an awesome company. Eric Schmidt's recent book is an enlightening read:

How Google Works: Eric Schmidt, Jonathan Rosenberg: 9781455582341: Amazon.com: Books
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-17-2014, 02:29 PM
 
6,730 posts, read 6,623,196 times
Reputation: 2386
Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonkid123 View Post
I know, companies have no moral guidelines at all. It's just like how Deutsche Bahn cooperated with German government to prioritize shipping of Jews from West to East. Or how I.G. Farben was "pressured" by the German government to research, develop, and mass-produce Zyklon B. That's right, companies should just shut up, make money, regardless of how ridiculous, immoral, and unjust the laws are.

That is why Google is such an awesome company. Eric Schmidt's recent book is an enlightening read:

How Google Works: Eric Schmidt, Jonathan Rosenberg: 9781455582341: Amazon.com: Books
Nobody likes censorship but you can't ask baidu to fight the government. In fact it provides a platform for Chinese people and many useful and interesting discussions can be found there.

Things are not just black and white. Many American social networks sell users' data, or even cooperate with US government.
Go ask Snowden.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top