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Old 06-04-2015, 01:12 AM
 
501 posts, read 461,668 times
Reputation: 747

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
This is not true. In the US, the campaign to eliminate sow crates for birthing piglets are already in place in many states. There are anti-cruelty laws being applied to domestic animals such as pigs, cows and chickens. There is a huge movement for free range chickens and many farms are switching to open air chicken containment areas instead of small wired crates. China's domestic animals are even more miserable than the dogs and cats. You do not know what you are talking about.
Do you have any data to back up that claim? The USDA doesn't keep stats on how pork is raised, but according to an Iowa State University study no more than 750,000 of the nearly 10 million pigs slaughtered in the US in any given year could be classified as humanely raised (Humanely Raised Hogs Trend Spreads Across U.S.). According to author, journalist, and chef Barry Estabrook 80% of sows spend spend their entire lives in gestation crates ('Tales' Of Pig Intelligence, Factory Farming And Humane Bacon : The Salt : NPR). Oscar Meyer, one of the largest pork producers on the planet, has set a timeline to remove crate-raising from their production timeline by the year 2022, but currently still raise most of their pork that way (Oscar Mayer Confirms Plan to Eliminate Pig Gestation Crates).

Yes, public pressure (and in some cases science) is starting to change the way food is produced in the USA, but the vast majority of animals are still raised on factory farms, in terrible conditions, and being force-fed antibiotics to keep them from getting sick in those terrible conditions. And getting rid of crates doesn't mean the pigs are raised like Babe on a farm--they just get a slightly bigger crate. The California law that bans gestation crates just specifies that the crates must be big enough for the pig to turn around--they don't have to actually ever be let out of the crate (California Law Banning Confinement Crates Takes Effect In 2015).

And over 20% of the pork eaten in China comes from the US (Agrimoney.com | Chinese pork - Chinese pork imports to see 'considerable growth'). And as you have pointed out, they don't really care how their pork is raised. The largest pork producing company on the planet, Smithfield Farms from Virginia, was even recently purchased by the Chinese company Shuanghui Group.

 
Old 06-04-2015, 02:24 AM
 
4,683 posts, read 3,612,199 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by strad View Post
Do you have any data to back up that claim? The USDA doesn't keep stats on how pork is raised, but according to an Iowa State University study no more than 750,000 of the nearly 10 million pigs slaughtered in the US in any given year could be classified as humanely raised (Humanely Raised Hogs Trend Spreads Across U.S.). According to author, journalist, and chef Barry Estabrook 80% of sows spend spend their entire lives in gestation crates ('Tales' Of Pig Intelligence, Factory Farming And Humane Bacon : The Salt : NPR). Oscar Meyer, one of the largest pork producers on the planet, has set a timeline to remove crate-raising from their production timeline by the year 2022, but currently still raise most of their pork that way (Oscar Mayer Confirms Plan to Eliminate Pig Gestation Crates).

Yes, public pressure (and in some cases science) is starting to change the way food is produced in the USA, but the vast majority of animals are still raised on factory farms, in terrible conditions, and being force-fed antibiotics to keep them from getting sick in those terrible conditions. And getting rid of crates doesn't mean the pigs are raised like Babe on a farm--they just get a slightly bigger crate. The California law that bans gestation crates just specifies that the crates must be big enough for the pig to turn around--they don't have to actually ever be let out of the crate (California Law Banning Confinement Crates Takes Effect In 2015).

And over 20% of the pork eaten in China comes from the US (Agrimoney.com | Chinese pork - Chinese pork imports to see 'considerable growth'). And as you have pointed out, they don't really care how their pork is raised. The largest pork producing company on the planet, Smithfield Farms from Virginia, was even recently purchased by the Chinese company Shuanghui Group.
And do you think a Chinese company will introduce reforms to make the lives of pigs better? If anything, it will get worse as they try to skirt what regulations there are. The fact is, there is movement toward better handling of pork and chickens and cows in the US. Sure it takes time, but is there a movement to make the handling of animals more humane in China? Absolutely not. The bill to introduce a modest measure of anti-cruelty onto the Chinese law books get rejected yearly, with the official explanation that it's either against local culture, or inconsistent with some people's livelihood. It's as if the Chinese are married to cruelty and grotesque cultural habits and beliefs.
 
Old 06-04-2015, 02:36 AM
 
4,683 posts, read 3,612,199 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
How dare you criticize the PRC!
I am criticizing the Chinese habit of animal cruelty. It is not a political issue. Can you fathom the difference?
 
Old 06-04-2015, 02:43 AM
 
4,683 posts, read 3,612,199 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
Agree. Dog meat is very rare in China. I don't know why people make a big fuss out of it. When I traveled in China to many cities and towns, I never saw any restaurant selling dog meats. China has thousands and thousands of local customs and festivals. This one is one of them. Most Chinese actually are quite intrigued about this too. Why people want it to be banned? Do they want every local customs and cultures to be alike? That will be very boring. We need diversity. You just don't want to travel to another country in which everything is exactly the replicate of your own country.
Absolutely not true. The eating of dogs is quite common in many parts of China. My neighbors here from China all have and they are from Guangdong and Zhejiang. There are dog markets in 2nd tier cities all across China. You just have not been paying attention. I encountered one in Nanjing when I studied there two years. They are not on the nicest boulevards, but they are there. The habit of butchering dogs and letting blood bleed right into the city gutter and sewer systems is quite common too, even in bigger Chinese cities. They don't really care about state regulations and this is the core problem for China. Officials are reluctant to ban dog eating because they think it's unenforceable, precisely because most Chinese don't have a problem butchering the animals in grotesque ways and enjoying the meat for some unproven health benefits.
 
Old 06-04-2015, 02:47 AM
 
4,683 posts, read 3,612,199 times
Reputation: 7382
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
People of Abrahamic religions always want to convert other people. In fact, it is required in the doctrines.
"Democracy" is an extension of that.

It's not necessarily bad, but a tradition to notice.
Absolutely untrue. I for one am hardly religious and have no attachment to any form of Judeo-Christian religions. These religions do not have a monopoly on kindness and humanity. By excusing China's barbaric cultural habits, you are doing a disservice to your own people. You also notice I do not support the usual "democracy gung-ho" crowd because I agree that Chinese authoritarianism is a necessity for China at this point. But cruelty is a social and cultural issue, not a political one. Don't confuse the issues.
 
Old 06-04-2015, 07:56 AM
 
15 posts, read 12,942 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Absolutely untrue. I for one am hardly religious and have no attachment to any form of Judeo-Christian religions. These religions do not have a monopoly on kindness and humanity. By excusing China's barbaric cultural habits, you are doing a disservice to your own people. You also notice I do not support the usual "democracy gung-ho" crowd because I agree that Chinese authoritarianism is a necessity for China at this point. But cruelty is a social and cultural issue, not a political one. Don't confuse the issues.
I do not disagree with you. However, I do find boiling live lobster and force fed duck for liver cruel and barbaric. Why do you feel that it's a Chinese only issue?
 
Old 06-04-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Between the Alps and the North Sea
309 posts, read 205,547 times
Reputation: 477
Maybe Americans should bomb China next? You know, to save all the poor doggies.
 
Old 06-04-2015, 08:53 AM
 
117 posts, read 64,227 times
Reputation: 119
Probably you guys don't know the issues in slaughterhouses. Here some some excerpt from WIKI. It is more or less still in practice today. I read some article about pigs recently. Pigs are boiled alive to save time.

"Within, she unveils the interviews of slaughterhouse workers in the U.S. who say that, because of the speed with which they are required to work, animals are routinely skinned while apparently alive, and still blinking, kicking, and shrieking"

"According to the HFA, Eiznitz interviewed slaughterhouse workers representing over two million hours of experience, who, without exception, told her that they have beaten, strangled, boiled, and dismembered animals alive, or have failed to report those who do. The workers described the effects the violence has had on their personal lives, with several admitting to being physically abusive or taking to alcohol and other drugs"


"The HFA alleges that workers are required to kill up to 1,100 hogs an hour, and end up taking their frustration out on the animals.[24] Eisnitz interviewed one worker, who had worked in ten slaughterhouses, about pig production. He told her:

Hogs get stressed out pretty easy. If you prod them too much, they have heart attacks. If you get a hog in the chute that's had the **** prodded out of him and has a heart attack or refuses to move, you take a meat hook and hook it into his bunghole. You try to do this by clipping the hipbone. Then you drag him backwards. You're dragging these hogs alive, and a lot of times the meat hook rips out of the bunghole. I've seen hamsthighs — completely ripped open. I've also seen intestines come out. If the hog collapses near the front of the chute, you shove the meat hook into his cheek and drag him forward.[25]"








 
Old 06-04-2015, 08:58 AM
 
15,734 posts, read 9,248,038 times
Reputation: 14212
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
China has many ugly cultural habits, and you know it. Pointing out these ugly habits is the only way China can get better because it is a closed society and its people prefer to wallow in their own complacent ignorance.
Habits that are considered "ugly" by another culture. Rest assured, many our our habits are considered ugly to the Chinese.
 
Old 06-04-2015, 09:05 AM
 
15,734 posts, read 9,248,038 times
Reputation: 14212
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmun View Post
Agree. Dog meat is very rare in China. I don't know why people make a big fuss out of it. When I traveled in China to many cities and towns, I never saw any restaurant selling dog meats. China has thousands and thousands of local customs and festivals. This one is one of them. Most Chinese actually are quite intrigued about this too. Why people want it to be banned? Do they want every local customs and cultures to be alike? That will be very boring. We need diversity. You just don't want to travel to another country in which everything is exactly the replicate of your own country.
Not to mention arrogant. To decide that you are the enlightened ones, and everybody else needs to learn how to be just like you is the height of arrogance.
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