U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-05-2015, 02:54 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 3,657,074 times
Reputation: 7415

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Don't you get that before anyone in a country would even think of advocating for animal rights, human rights have to be established first? Has nothing to do with candy or going to church.

I've been to ten Chinese cities and had been introduced and even tried a number of "weird" food, but never had I been offered or seen dog meat there. They might exist, but it's certainly as common as you make it out to be.

China had melamine milk, gutter oil and so many other food safety issues. Your animal cruelty concern is among the least of anyone's concern there. Food safety (for the daily types of food first) before anyone would even start talking about animal cruelty in the exotic food category (which is likewise still "safe" to eat anyway). If you also cannot understand that line of thinking, I don't think there's anything to discuss. You might as well try advocating using porn so people can notice animal cruelty as PETA does (or maybe you're their member already). Just figure out how to get porn go through the Great Firewall of China.
Nope. this isn't going to fly. I am talking about animal cruelty. You are advocating for political change. Start your own thread with little danger if you want. This is about Yulin and the dog meat festival, which, if you really look at it, is all about what the local people want. Sounds pretty "democratic" and the right to self cultural expression to me. The problem is that particular cultural expression, which is the topic of my thread. Your desire to redirect this to some sort of "democratic change" political discussion actually makes no sense because, in this case at least, it's all about a locality's "democratic cultural expression", which is an egg on your face. If you disagree, you've made your point and feel free to not participate. FYI, I am not part of PETA, but I'll give you half credit for your attempt to redirect the topic.

 
Old 06-05-2015, 03:00 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 3,657,074 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bettafish View Post
It's just a tradition. The specific content can range from Christianity to human rights to animal welfare.
Westerners want to change other people's ideology.
Communism (derived from western culture too) is like that also.

Traditionally, Chinese cared little about what other people believe. It may or may not be a good thing.
Not a good thing, because no country or culture has a monopoly on the truth. Plenty of Chinese things are worth learning, and plenty of Chinese things need to be thrown out with the trash. Western ideas and philosophies are the same. Religions, on the whole, need to be thrown out.

China needs to learn to be more civilized in a modern sense. Killing dogs by beating them to death right on the street so that the meat taste extra "hot" is just stupid and barbaric. This is not to say that Western agro businesses are innocent. But my post is about Yulin, not Smithfield.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Earth
4,604 posts, read 3,163,901 times
Reputation: 3427
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Nope. this isn't going to fly. I am talking about animal cruelty. You are advocating for political change. Start your own thread with little danger if you want. This is about Yulin and the dog meat festival, which, if you really look at it, is all about what the local people want. Sounds pretty "democratic" and the right to self cultural expression to me. The problem is that particular cultural expression, which is the topic of my thread. Your desire to redirect this to some sort of "democratic change" political discussion actually makes no sense because, in this case at least, it's all about a locality's "democratic cultural expression", which is an egg on your face. If you disagree, you've made your point and feel free to not participate. FYI, I am not part of PETA, but I'll give you half credit for your attempt to redirect the topic.
You're the one with egg on your face. You can't have animals rights without human rights first.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Not a good thing, because no country or culture has a monopoly on the truth. Plenty of Chinese things are worth learning, and plenty of Chinese things need to be thrown out with the trash. Western ideas and philosophies are the same. Religions, on the whole, need to be thrown out.

China needs to learn to be more civilized in a modern sense. Killing dogs by beating them to death right on the street so that the meat taste extra "hot" is just stupid and barbaric. This is not to say that Western agro businesses are innocent. But my post is about Yulin, not Smithfield.
How dare you criticize the PRC! You're not allowed to do that. People in the PRC are locked up for that. Your post is irrelevant to a population of 1 billion. When authoritarian china takes over, you're voice will be silenced and you'll be put into a labor camp.

You need to respect the chinese culture of eating everything that turn's its back to heaven. All fours except the table.

Stop trying to impose you're western values on the PRC.

Stability and dog meat about all else!

Last edited by Dangerous-Boy; 06-05-2015 at 11:22 AM..
 
Old 06-05-2015, 12:16 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,361,563 times
Reputation: 7587
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post

China needs to learn to be more civilized in a modern sense. Killing dogs by beating them to death right on the street so that the meat taste extra "hot" is just stupid and barbaric. This is not to say that Western agro businesses are innocent. But my post is about Yulin, not Smithfield.
I whole heartedly agree with this.
Eating dogs is acceptable to me, but killing dogs they way they do is simply barbaric under whatever culture.
 
Old 06-05-2015, 05:19 PM
 
4,739 posts, read 3,657,074 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
I whole heartedly agree with this.
Eating dogs is acceptable to me, but killing dogs they way they do is simply barbaric under whatever culture.
Ok so we're getting somewhere. So why should China not pass anti-cruelty laws? Is it that difficult?
 
Old 06-05-2015, 05:51 PM
 
4,739 posts, read 3,657,074 times
Reputation: 7415
This is very encouraging. China is going in the right direction. There is no reason why the SCS can't be turned into a Chinese controlled and protected preserve.

China pledges to end ivory trading
 
Old 06-05-2015, 10:23 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,689,553 times
Reputation: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Nope. this isn't going to fly. I am talking about animal cruelty. You are advocating for political change. Start your own thread with little danger if you want. This is about Yulin and the dog meat festival, which, if you really look at it, is all about what the local people want. Sounds pretty "democratic" and the right to self cultural expression to me. The problem is that particular cultural expression, which is the topic of my thread. Your desire to redirect this to some sort of "democratic change" political discussion actually makes no sense because, in this case at least, it's all about a locality's "democratic cultural expression", which is an egg on your face. If you disagree, you've made your point and feel free to not participate. FYI, I am not part of PETA, but I'll give you half credit for your attempt to redirect the topic.
I know you are talking about animal cruelty because my posts specifically acknowledged that. And don't put words into my mouth. I am not advocating for political change. All I said is that without human rights in a certain country, people will not start caring about animal cruelty. But I respect China's non-interference policy and I am not an advocate of more human rights for China at all, the same way I don't care if there's animal cruelty or even human cruelty within the PRC's original borders at all, as long as these things don't happen in Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan and the South China Sea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
This is very encouraging. China is going in the right direction. There is no reason why the SCS can't be turned into a Chinese controlled and protected preserve.

China pledges to end ivory trading
I thought you said this is about Yulin and the dog meat festival. Dogs don't produce ivory. And they don't have elephants in Yulin either.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 01:46 AM
 
4,739 posts, read 3,657,074 times
Reputation: 7415
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
I know you are talking about animal cruelty because my posts specifically acknowledged that. And don't put words into my mouth. I am not advocating for political change. All I said is that without human rights in a certain country, people will not start caring about animal cruelty. But I respect China's non-interference policy and I am not an advocate of more human rights for China at all, the same way I don't care if there's animal cruelty or even human cruelty within the PRC's original borders at all, as long as these things don't happen in Hong Kong, Macau, Taiwan and the South China Sea."

HK used to have dog meat, but the British banned it and over time, the HK people stopped eating it as a tradition. I am hoping that happens in China. Dont use my thread to drag in some grand standing political propoganda. If you want to talk about human rights in China, which is a political issue, then start a new thread. Slaughtering dogs on the sidewalk with bats and letting them die slowly to maintain their "heat" is NOT a political issue. It is an ugly cultural issue at its worse. It has nothing to do with the right to vote etc.



"I thought you said this is about Yulin and the dog meat festival. Dogs don't produce ivory. And they don't have elephants in Yulin either.
Read the whole article. It stated that more than 95% of young Chinese in cities surveyed do not wish to eat wild animals. It's encouraging in that once they see how cruel dogs are butchered, they will also change their attitude and, if not stop eating dogs altogether, demand better treatment of the animals before they are slaughtered. This is why it's encouraging....that within a relatively short time, with enough good campaigns and education, the younger Chinese will be better than their ugly older parents.
 
Old 06-06-2015, 07:02 PM
 
1,111 posts, read 1,689,553 times
Reputation: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Read the whole article. It stated that more than 95% of young Chinese in cities surveyed do not wish to eat wild animals. It's encouraging in that once they see how cruel dogs are butchered, they will also change their attitude and, if not stop eating dogs altogether, demand better treatment of the animals before they are slaughtered. This is why it's encouraging....that within a relatively short time, with enough good campaigns and education, the younger Chinese will be better than their ugly older parents.
Dogs are not wild animals. Also, it depends on which cities they surveyed. For both Guangdong and Guangxi provinces, the desire to eat something exotic is there, and they are actually much more expensive rather than cheaper. And most patrons who are rich enough to eat them are CCP officials!

You might not understand the relevance and might claim I have a political agenda, but a few years ago, a toddler was run over just outside her parents' store in Foshan. Many passers-by saw her, but pretty much ignored her. No one called the police, no one called an ambulance, no one bothered to notify her parents which were just near by. The only who helped after so long was a scavenger. Part of the reason why people do not get involved and refused to help is out of fear. This sort of thing does not happen in Hong Kong or Taiwan, so it surely is a result of the CCP administrative methods rather than traditional Confucian teachings. The reason I mentioned this is not because I would like to change anything, but rather, it's just the "cultural norm" in mainland China to be indifferent to the plight of strangers, even innocent and helpless toddlers. In the event one witnesses animal cruelty, what do you expect people there to do anyway? Call you?
 
Old 06-07-2015, 01:16 AM
 
6,754 posts, read 6,669,755 times
Reputation: 2390
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenTiger View Post
Dogs are not wild animals. Also, it depends on which cities they surveyed. For both Guangdong and Guangxi provinces, the desire to eat something exotic is there, and they are actually much more expensive rather than cheaper. And most patrons who are rich enough to eat them are CCP officials!

You might not understand the relevance and might claim I have a political agenda, but a few years ago, a toddler was run over just outside her parents' store in Foshan. Many passers-by saw her, but pretty much ignored her. No one called the police, no one called an ambulance, no one bothered to notify her parents which were just near by. The only who helped after so long was a scavenger. Part of the reason why people do not get involved and refused to help is out of fear. This sort of thing does not happen in Hong Kong or Taiwan, so it surely is a result of the CCP administrative methods rather than traditional Confucian teachings. The reason I mentioned this is not because I would like to change anything, but rather, it's just the "cultural norm" in mainland China to be indifferent to the plight of strangers, even innocent and helpless toddlers. In the event one witnesses animal cruelty, what do you expect people there to do anyway? Call you?
I don't think the Foshan incident represents all of China either.
If I am correct, the place where the toddler was run over was full of migrant workers and businessmen, who had little connection with each other. There was simply no bond among people.

Suppose the same thing happened in my neighborhood in my hometown, I am pretty sure people will offer help immediately, because my neighbors all know each other, and are all well educated (I lived on college campus).

This is not to suggest what happened in Foshan is "normal". In fact it is awful. However, I don't like the idea that people use such things to generalize China or Chinese people.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:42 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top