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Old 06-07-2015, 05:12 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,192,720 times
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OP, they're just dogs! Who cares if people eat them, it's not like they are an endangered species you are obsessed. Just stop, you're not going to change anything

 
Old 06-07-2015, 08:21 AM
 
4,695 posts, read 3,620,707 times
Reputation: 7394
"This sort of thing does not happen in Hong Kong or Taiwan, so it surely is a result of the CCP administrative methods rather than traditional Confucian teachings."...

Oh really? How so? Exactly what policy of the CCP resulted in the Chinese breaking with their 5000 years old tradition and their confucian roots? Are you going to bring up something archaic like the Cultural Revolution? Or how about the Chinese death penalty policy? Or no one voted for Xi Jingping, or monks in Tibet getting "shot and killed by the thousands" etc etc etc? LOL

It's a Chinese cultural flaw, and both taiwan and hk show less because they are both more affluent and had colonial masters who beat these bad traits out of them. Probably one of the few good things the japanese and the british did. I am not sure who but a Chinese artist (Ai Weiwei) or some prize winner (liu Xiaobo?) did say that China needed 300 years of colonial rule to get better....I can see his point.
 
Old 06-07-2015, 03:09 PM
AFP
 
6,898 posts, read 4,243,943 times
Reputation: 5878
Boy did I ever get an education reading this thread not only about peoples food preferences in China but also about how animal suffering is viewed, and the opinions on not increasing human rights and criticizing the PRC I read those posts with interest, but I have to say that the paradigm in Chinese culture is so diametrically opposite of my baseline that some comments were uncomfortable to read. Beating dogs to death on the street so the the meat will taste hotter, and butchering live animals with no compassion for the suffering screaming dog we are worlds away culturally on this issue and I don't mean that in a good way. I don't believe an individual that is indifferent to the torture of any living thing is trustworthy, if people in China insist on eating dog why not at least kill the animals quickly to prevent the animal from suffering.

Last edited by AFP; 06-07-2015 at 04:26 PM..
 
Old 06-07-2015, 03:58 PM
 
Location: Paradise CA, that place on fire
752 posts, read 439,719 times
Reputation: 2030
If diversity means turning Lassie into hotdogs I despise diversity.
Pennyone, give up, some posters here just don't get it.
 
Old 06-07-2015, 06:08 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,671,800 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
"This sort of thing does not happen in Hong Kong or Taiwan, so it surely is a result of the CCP administrative methods rather than traditional Confucian teachings."...

Oh really? How so? Exactly what policy of the CCP resulted in the Chinese breaking with their 5000 years old tradition and their confucian roots? Are you going to bring up something archaic like the Cultural Revolution? Or how about the Chinese death penalty policy? Or no one voted for Xi Jingping, or monks in Tibet getting "shot and killed by the thousands" etc etc etc? LOL

It's a Chinese cultural flaw, and both taiwan and hk show less because they are both more affluent and had colonial masters who beat these bad traits out of them. Probably one of the few good things the japanese and the british did. I am not sure who but a Chinese artist (Ai Weiwei) or some prize winner (liu Xiaobo?) did say that China needed 300 years of colonial rule to get better....I can see his point.
This is getting ridiculous and your racial prejudice is showing. Yes, effects of the Cultural Revolution is there. How "archaic" is it when so many who witnessed it are still alive today. What I am talking about for migrant people in Foshan is the hukou system as implemented in China, but never mind explaining that to you.

Anyway, how can you say it's a Chinese cultural flaw? What makes you an expert? There are more than 1 billion Chinese in this planet and what happens in a festival in a fifth-tier city none of us have even been to does not represent Chinese culture at all. Many here know more about Chinese culture than you do. NONE has tasted dog here in this forum. NONE has seen dog meat. NONE has witnessed this festival you are talking about. It's certainly not mainstream at all. Have you even been to a slaughterhouse in China? Or even in a restaurant kitchen? Have you even been to a slaughterhouse in any country at all? Spending time in Nanjing does not make you an expert in Chinese culture, nor understand anything of what goes on in Guangxi.
 
Old 06-07-2015, 07:31 PM
 
Location: WA
35 posts, read 34,556 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
All part of the Traditional Medicine BS that's not only bringing cruel treatment to dogs and cats before they are slaughtered, but driving wild animals into extinction like rhinos and the like.

The Chinese are by nature a cruel and cold race. That's the one thing I absolutely find repulsive about the Chinese people. The government is much more enlightened, but faced with a cultural habit backed up by hundreds of millions of ignorant bumpkins, what can you do but pick your fight wisely?

This is why I personally have much less problem with Chinese authorianism for China simply because it's the only way to govern a huge and still ignorant population. Even the most educated and tech savvy ones are often pretty prudish, insular and conservative. So many people in China still think that elephant ivory are harvested without hurting the elephants. It gets really that stupid.

I had a grad student friend from China who believed that a baby was born from a woman's arm pit, and that eating dog bladder could ward off evil and cure insomnia. He was a graduate student from Nanjing University, no less!
Wtf ? I'm culturally Southern Chinese and what the hell ? We are by nature a cruel and cold race ? Yes we eat some weird food like snake, dog, etc but cruel ? really ? you are one hell of a funny guy !

So what if I'm prude, and conservative ? Do people need to show their private parts around or have casual sex to be considered as 'civilized' or 'developed' ?
Liberals like you be like 'respect everyone !!! respect every cultural differences !! everyone is unique !!!!!!'
but when there's a conservative, 'omg backward !! ewwwww stupid prude conservative !'




Yeah I get it we Chinese are barbarians and need to be taught by the amazing westerner to become civilized


Also don't worry ! Many people from muslim world consider westerner and chinese barbarian too ! Because we eat pork and do 'haram' things
 
Old 06-07-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,780 posts, read 13,368,018 times
Reputation: 11309
the cultural revolution began about a half century ago and ended in the 1970's. There are millions of people who were there for, grew up in, took part in, or got screwed by the cultural revolution... when you say "archaic," that's a pretty gross misnomer considering that it happened in the lifetimes of a good few hundred million people who live in China.

dog has been consumed in China and other agrarian societies for thousands of years, much in the same way that horses were - you have a dog for utilitarian purposes, the thing gets old and useless, you eat it. The thing with animals like dogs is that it is way less efficient to rause them than it is to raise pigs or cows because of the amount if resources they need for the amount of meat you'll get. During the Great Leap Forward - which basically everyone who lived through and had a part in the cultural revolution lived through in - there were mass rural famines because of Mao's idiotic and arrogant personal intervention into thousands of years worth of agricultural knowledge. Your kids are about to starve... bye-bye Sparky and Mittens...

The CCP took most of the food harvested and sent it to urban areas, so in urban China there was much less consumption of household animals, and incidentally, the issue of dog meat consumption is largely a non-issue in urban China, where it is viewed as backwards and disgusting. It is a bigger problem in China's interior, in the country, suburbs, or smaller cities, or in the districts of cities where you have large numbers of rural Chinese who come to work in factories or construction; as my fiance says, "uneducated rural people with no class." the only place I've seen dog meat in GZ was way into a factory district populated mostly by migrants, offered at a big outdoor barbecue. contrast that with the rest of GZ where you see old people out walking their dogs in the park, or young people who walk them through the CBD.

It's the legacy of the early, ideological CCP's disruption of Chinese culture that has led to it being the issue it is now. You have three or four generations of people who don't view it as a bad thing, and beyond that, now that you can get pork, beef, and chicken no problem, they view it as a delicacy. Its status-hungry China is probably its biggest death knell.
 
Old 06-08-2015, 02:16 AM
 
4,695 posts, read 3,620,707 times
Reputation: 7394
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
the cultural revolution began about a half century ago and ended in the 1970's. There are millions of people who were there for, grew up in, took part in, or got screwed by the cultural revolution... when you say "archaic," that's a pretty gross misnomer considering that it happened in the lifetimes of a good few hundred million people who live in China.

dog has been consumed in China and other agrarian societies for thousands of years, much in the same way that horses were - you have a dog for utilitarian purposes, the thing gets old and useless, you eat it. The thing with animals like dogs is that it is way less efficient to rause them than it is to raise pigs or cows because of the amount if resources they need for the amount of meat you'll get. During the Great Leap Forward - which basically everyone who lived through and had a part in the cultural revolution lived through in - there were mass rural famines because of Mao's idiotic and arrogant personal intervention into thousands of years worth of agricultural knowledge. Your kids are about to starve... bye-bye Sparky and Mittens...

The CCP took most of the food harvested and sent it to urban areas, so in urban China there was much less consumption of household animals, and incidentally, the issue of dog meat consumption is largely a non-issue in urban China, where it is viewed as backwards and disgusting. It is a bigger problem in China's interior, in the country, suburbs, or smaller cities, or in the districts of cities where you have large numbers of rural Chinese who come to work in factories or construction; as my fiance says, "uneducated rural people with no class." the only place I've seen dog meat in GZ was way into a factory district populated mostly by migrants, offered at a big outdoor barbecue. contrast that with the rest of GZ where you see old people out walking their dogs in the park, or young people who walk them through the CBD.

It's the legacy of the early, ideological CCP's disruption of Chinese culture that has led to it being the issue it is now. You have three or four generations of people who don't view it as a bad thing, and beyond that, now that you can get pork, beef, and chicken no problem, they view it as a delicacy. Its status-hungry China is probably its biggest death knell.
The only sane and rational position I've read so far in response to the dog slaughtering tradition. I can see how the eating of dog meat can be associated with the efforts at forced industrialization fused with poverty and cultural ignorance from inland and dirty poor province. But it is still a cultural issue, and these poor migrant workers carry with them a cultural flaw that need to be fixed. They came from provinces that eat and kill dogs in grotesque ways. Where did that come from? People get all huffy and puffy, when, in reality, they should re-examine Chinese traditions and see what's rotten and what's worth saving. The fact is, sure Yulin is a fifth tier city, but certainly the eating of dogs is pretty common considering it's so well known, and it is by no means the only place that eats dogs in China, nor is it the only place that have the habit of beating them to death right on the streets. It's a cultural flaw in the sense that they don't see the grotesque inhumanity of the act of beating something to death in such a horrid way just for the taste of the meat in a certain way. You don't find this problematic? The fact that there are even some Chinese, or ethnic Chinese who come on here to defend it (as if it's some sort of cultural badge of honor), is even more disturbing. My experience in Nanjing, though short and limited, does not negate the fact that Yulin and many other places have tragic traditions that still run today, in the enlightened 21 century and much to the delight of many locals no less (see story).

You can muddle the water all you want with cries against Chinese political repression or what not. You can even make it into some struggle between conservatism and liberalism, whatever that means in the Chinese context, but you can never get away from two facts...Your beef with the CCP isn't something that I care to address here.

1) Yulin and other Chinese places have grotesque traditions that are still very popular in China today. This is a cultural flaw.

2) To this day, China's government still does not have an anti-cruelty law not because the CCP is evil, but because it sense that many Chinese won't accept it. Many delegates to the NPC in fact state this over and over again as they pass of such a proposal repeatedly. This is a strong evidence of a cultural flaw, not a political problem.

Last edited by pennyone; 06-08-2015 at 02:27 AM..
 
Old 06-08-2015, 06:26 PM
 
1,099 posts, read 1,671,800 times
Reputation: 971
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
The only sane and rational position I've read so far in response to the dog slaughtering tradition. I can see how the eating of dog meat can be associated with the efforts at forced industrialization fused with poverty and cultural ignorance from inland and dirty poor province. But it is still a cultural issue, and these poor migrant workers carry with them a cultural flaw that need to be fixed. They came from provinces that eat and kill dogs in grotesque ways. Where did that come from? People get all huffy and puffy, when, in reality, they should re-examine Chinese traditions and see what's rotten and what's worth saving. The fact is, sure Yulin is a fifth tier city, but certainly the eating of dogs is pretty common considering it's so well known, and it is by no means the only place that eats dogs in China, nor is it the only place that have the habit of beating them to death right on the streets. It's a cultural flaw in the sense that they don't see the grotesque inhumanity of the act of beating something to death in such a horrid way just for the taste of the meat in a certain way. You don't find this problematic? The fact that there are even some Chinese, or ethnic Chinese who come on here to defend it (as if it's some sort of cultural badge of honor), is even more disturbing. My experience in Nanjing, though short and limited, does not negate the fact that Yulin and many other places have tragic traditions that still run today, in the enlightened 21 century and much to the delight of many locals no less (see story).

You can muddle the water all you want with cries against Chinese political repression or what not. You can even make it into some struggle between conservatism and liberalism, whatever that means in the Chinese context, but you can never get away from two facts...Your beef with the CCP isn't something that I care to address here.

1) Yulin and other Chinese places have grotesque traditions that are still very popular in China today. This is a cultural flaw.

2) To this day, China's government still does not have an anti-cruelty law not because the CCP is evil, but because it sense that many Chinese won't accept it. Many delegates to the NPC in fact state this over and over again as they pass of such a proposal repeatedly. This is a strong evidence of a cultural flaw, not a political problem.
You're making very broad generalizations here, based on one article that talks about what happens in one city. And you're calling more than 1 billion barbaric, just because they do not agree with you! Again, here are the flaws in your arguments:

1. Yulin is just a city no one visits or largely cares about in China. It is in an autonomous region, in a frontier region far from being a cultural heartland of the Chinese people.

2. No one eats dogs here. Also, all agree that beating a dog to death is cruel and unnecessary. You are also discounting the fact that beating a dog to death might be described in one article and most likely is not the standard way of slaughtering dogs. Yellow journalism and sensationalism do exist, a lot! Most of us just don't agree to lobby for animal cruelty laws in China.

3. We all have different reasons why it's not the right time to have animal cruelty laws in China. Ranges from apathy, unenforceable, too many other more pressing issues, etc. Personally, I don't believe your thoughts that the NPC would like to enact such laws but are concerned its citizens. What hogwash. They'll submerge entire ancestral cities to construct a dam, if they so wish. My primary reason of not supporting any animal cruelty laws is because I am not a citizen of the PRC, and as such, it's none of my business what their citizens or their government do. In addition, I do not think it's enforceable and there are other more important international and national concerns, rather than focus on what rural people (who were starving to death just one generation ago) eat.
 
Old 06-09-2015, 01:42 PM
 
6,726 posts, read 6,614,442 times
Reputation: 2386
^^ Yeah. Guangxi and Guangdong are like Texas of China. They are Chinese but their culture is far from the norm.
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