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Old 08-09-2015, 07:11 PM
 
Location: Patrolling The Wasteland
397 posts, read 307,590 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by payutenyodagimas View Post
why would Americans envy the Japanese? American culture is based on liberty and individualism whereas the Japanese put more emphasis on community
And an emphasis on community is to be admonished?

As an American I, if anything, envy the sense of community and shared responsibility that some societies possess.

What kind of path are we on that community is to be disparaged?

 
Old 08-09-2015, 07:34 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,779 posts, read 13,351,665 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harpaint View Post
You must be kidding. I've never heard any American, young or old, say they envy the Japan culture. And this includes several Japanese Americans!
I certainly have known a number of people who say they do. Most of them were one of two types of people:

1. Americans who are disillusioned with life in America, or possibly life in the West, particularly the anglosphere as a whole, and go under the assumption than anywhere - anywhere - must be better than here.

2. Anime geeks and Japanophiles who, despite their defenses otherwise, are more driven out of a sense of infatuation with Japanese pop culture (anime, Manga, j-rock, Japanese horor films, the entire Konami/Squaresoft/Capcom back catalogue of video games) or romanticised dreams of disciplined samurai, salty ronin and sexy geishas than an appreciation or understanding of modern Japanese culture.

Few of the couple dozen Westerners I've known who fall under these two groups who manage to get to Japan actually stay there for any meaningful length of time... most of the people I've met who lived there for awhile or permanently resettled there had a much more nuanced opinion of Japanese culture that didn't seem anywhere near as extreme, and much more realistic and open-minded expectations of life there.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Patrolling The Wasteland
397 posts, read 307,590 times
Reputation: 1176
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I certainly have known a number of people who say they do. Most of them were one of two types of people:

1. Americans who are disillusioned with life in America, or possibly life in the West, particularly the anglosphere as a whole, and go under the assumption than anywhere - anywhere - must be better than here.

2. Anime geeks and Japanophiles who, despite their defenses otherwise, are more driven out of a sense of infatuation with Japanese pop culture (anime, Manga, j-rock, Japanese horor films, the entire Konami/Squaresoft/Capcom back catalogue of video games) or romanticised dreams of disciplined samurai, salty ronin and sexy geishas than an appreciation or understanding of modern Japanese culture.

Few of the couple dozen Westerners I've known who fall under these two groups who manage to get to Japan actually stay there for any meaningful length of time... most of the people I've met who lived there for awhile or permanently resettled there had a much more nuanced opinion of Japanese culture that didn't seem anywhere near as extreme, and much more realistic and open-minded expectations of life there.
Agreed on virtually every count, and this should be expected.

The phrase "the grass is always greener on the other side" exists for a reason. This is particularly true of places like Japan that are popularly perceived as "exotic" and a popular destination for tourists from the Western world looking to experience the drastically different lifestyle of the far east.

I am guilty of the same to some extent with much of Scandinavian. I am good friends with numerous Swedes and Norwegians who have overwhelmingly positive things to say of their homeland, and the adoration of social systems in Scandinavia as expressed by much of the internet need not be repeated. Yet I know, were I to move there, on some level I would likely yearn to return to the life I knew.

And can I just say that obsession with Japanese popular culture is getting annoying, particularly these folks who feign knowledge of Japanese. Just stop.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 09:07 PM
 
1,566 posts, read 822,923 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
2. Anime geeks and Japanophiles who, despite their defenses otherwise, are more driven out of a sense of infatuation with Japanese pop culture (anime, Manga, j-rock, Japanese horor films, the entire Konami/Squaresoft/Capcom back catalogue of video games) or romanticised dreams of disciplined samurai, salty ronin and sexy geishas than an appreciation or understanding of modern Japanese culture.
It's hard to fault them, when Japanese media entered their lives at an extremely early age, before they really knew what they were being exposed to. Maybe older generations sought out Japanese products in their later years, but for Millennials (and late-Xers like me), it's one of the first things they watched on TV. I never really caught on to anime, but the video games did get to me.

After living there for a while, I've grown to appreciate the country as another 1st world society, with different values (and different, although not always necessarily better, ways to "screw in a lightbulb") than Western 1st world counterparts.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 09:28 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,161,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc17 View Post
It's hard to fault them, when Japanese media entered their lives at an extremely early age, before they really knew what they were being exposed to. Maybe older generations sought out Japanese products in their later years, but for Millennials (and late-Xers like me), it's one of the first things they watched on TV. I never really caught on to anime, but the video games did get to me.

After living there for a while, I've grown to appreciate the country as another 1st world society, with different values (and different, although not always necessarily better, ways to "screw in a lightbulb") than Western 1st world counterparts.
In my case, since I came from a different culture and moved to a new one at a precarious age (Puerto Rico to rural Republican America), I guess I developed the ability to not wear rose tinted glasses when it comes to foreign countries and cultures, ie a more realistic expectation rather than basing an entire country's people and culture on modern pop culture.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 09:31 PM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,161,410 times
Reputation: 11619
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I certainly have known a number of people who say they do. Most of them were one of two types of people:

1. Americans who are disillusioned with life in America, or possibly life in the West, particularly the anglosphere as a whole, and go under the assumption than anywhere - anywhere - must be better than here.

2. Anime geeks and Japanophiles who, despite their defenses otherwise, are more driven out of a sense of infatuation with Japanese pop culture (anime, Manga, j-rock, Japanese horor films, the entire Konami/Squaresoft/Capcom back catalogue of video games) or romanticised dreams of disciplined samurai, salty ronin and sexy geishas than an appreciation or understanding of modern Japanese culture.

Few of the couple dozen Westerners I've known who fall under these two groups who manage to get to Japan actually stay there for any meaningful length of time... most of the people I've met who lived there for awhile or permanently resettled there had a much more nuanced opinion of Japanese culture that didn't seem anywhere near as extreme, and much more realistic and open-minded expectations of life there.
You also forgot a third type. It's a far cry from 1 and 2, but there are enough of them (even if they are a much smaller minority) to warrant a mention. According to the interwebs, there is also the 3rd type, the "sexpat". I don't know how much of an issue it is in China, Korea, and Japan, but sexpats are more common in the Philippines and Thailand from what I can gather from Google.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 09:34 PM
 
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
12,578 posts, read 15,046,057 times
Reputation: 12118
In some aspects yes, in some aspects no.
 
Old 08-09-2015, 09:39 PM
 
96 posts, read 99,182 times
Reputation: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Japan is by far the world leader in technology and has huge buildings.

They eat very healthy food and live longer then the rest of the world.

Do you think Americans and Europeans secretly envy their lifestyle? Maybe they are a model of what a society should be like.

Just throwing this idea out there and you guys can toss some ideas back. Sort of like playing catch.
Yeah sure, ingrained discrimination against women, stuck in the last century and out of sync with the rest of world technologically & culturally, annoying and inefficient social ranks and rituals, ... all these add up to a perfect society

I consider myself a Japanophile for the most part but it still surprises me sometimes how many clueless Japanophiles there are in the US
 
Old 08-09-2015, 09:48 PM
 
1,566 posts, read 822,923 times
Reputation: 1647
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
In my case, since I came from a different culture and moved to a new one at a precarious age (Puerto Rico to rural Republican America), I guess I developed the ability to not wear rose tinted glasses when it comes to foreign countries and cultures, ie a more realistic expectation rather than basing an entire country's people and culture on modern pop culture.
I have a similar background (moved from Trinidad to the US at an early age). That experience led me to believe that you don't have to stay confined to one part of the planet. And I'm glad to have had the opportunity to live in more than one society, each with different ways of looking at life.
 
Old 08-10-2015, 05:31 AM
 
25,059 posts, read 23,161,410 times
Reputation: 11619
Quote:
Originally Posted by kareno999 View Post
Yeah sure, ingrained discrimination against women, stuck in the last century and out of sync with the rest of world technologically & culturally, annoying and inefficient social ranks and rituals, ... all these add up to a perfect society

I consider myself a Japanophile for the most part but it still surprises me sometimes how many clueless Japanophiles there are in the US
I have a female Taiwanese friend who turned down a job offer in Japan precisely because she did not want to make coffee for all her male department coworkers in the morning, which is a cultural expectation in Japan.

Unfortunately, that's the mindset of most people that are attracted to Japan. I blame the anime and video games. Most Western immigrants to China and Korea are usually older. The Japan obsession starts as young as 13 in many cases. I don't want to bash the OP, but he comes off to me as someone who is in his early 20s, and his main primary reason for going to Japan is rooted in anime and stereotypes of Japanese girls (his repeated posts of I want a Japanese waifu!).
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