U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 08-18-2015, 12:04 AM
 
43 posts, read 43,973 times
Reputation: 37

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
He's right though. At what point is an apology not enough? Japanese textbooks and the Yasukuni Shrine are their business and not really something outsiders should interfere with. You hardly ever see Japan interfere with Chinese or Korean textbooks which are equally full of omissions and lies. Outside of South Korea and China, no one in Asia cares about Japan's apologies, Taiwan which is a foreign colony hardly ever raises a voice about it.

Before you mention Germany, Germany is an exception and even they haven't apologized for all of its atrocities. For example, Germany has for the past one hundred years ignored its genocide in Namibia. Other countries are far worse than Japan when it comes to apologies. Russia for example regard any kind of demand for an apology over its atrocities to Eastern European countries in WWII to be an affront and an insult to the memories of its fallen soldiers. Croatia has never apologized for the Ustasha and pro-Ustasha sentiment is rife throughout the country. The Ustasha was a Croatian nationalist organization during WWII that openly collaborated with the Nazis and instituted a genocide (complete with concentration camps) against Serbs and Jews in Croatia. Croatia's former president Franjo Tudjman was also an apologist for the Ustasha.

Read this book for a more nuanced view of Japan's apologies:

http://www.amazon.com/Japans-Contest.../dp/0415487803

What you get from the mainstream media is far too tainted and biased.
Why do you demonize nazi then?!? Yasukuni shrine is japanese thing?!? So you appologize and still give tribute to murderers?!? Is this true sincere apoligizing?!? or provoke victims?!?

Those countries need to appologize..especially turks appologize greeks for invading greece and genociding..just because others dont appologize doesnt mean i dont need to apologize.....germany appologize for murdering people but you say thats exception(?) and dont need to be followed but you follow other countries not appologizing....thats wrong...

 
Old 08-18-2015, 12:11 AM
 
957 posts, read 1,548,806 times
Reputation: 474
China, specifically its GOVERNMENT is not entitled to ask Japan for an apology because of what the Chinese soldiers(following the direct orders from the government) did to the people of Tibet, Uighur, and other ethnic minorities. This includes the mass murder/massacre of those people and total annexation of their sovereignty + land. And if Japan were to give an apology, it's only the direct relatives/families of the victims' that should be taken care of, NOT the Chinese GOVERNMENT.
 
Old 08-18-2015, 12:11 AM
 
43 posts, read 43,973 times
Reputation: 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
If my family was murdered, id want the killer to pay. I qouldnt give a crap what his children or grandchildren said or didnt say, and if they apologized, i'd certainly acept it.


I'm not politically correct in the least and if what I said here is "offensive" to someone, rhen I believe they deserve to be offended.


This would be relevant if we were talking about the perpetrators or people who were alive at the time and supported Imperial Japan's policies which led to so much suffering, and the people who experienced this suffering, and there was also an absence of apologies.

Because we are talking about the descendants of the victims, and there are indeed apologies that have Ben made many times, it is another matter entirely.
Their children need to appologize on behalf of their family eventhought its not their fault....if they dont, they dont have sympathy with victim....especially its japanese culture to apologize on behalf of his family.....not doing it is not appologizing.... anyways my point is japanese did not appologize enough....they dont appologize annually like germans and paid too little for compensation to korea....they paid 30 times more to philipines which they damage far less than korea....they should compensate enough money to korea....

Let me give the definition of appologizing....appologizing should be done until victims feel okay and accept appolize but still appologize to the point that victims start feeling the sincere mind of appologizer and forgiving....if victims demand appologies, it means that appologizing is not enough and sincerelity is not felt thus still feel the anger..

Last edited by good3352; 08-18-2015 at 12:20 AM..
 
Old 08-18-2015, 03:01 AM
 
4,706 posts, read 3,622,521 times
Reputation: 7401
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZpharmer View Post
China, specifically its GOVERNMENT is not entitled to ask Japan for an apology because of what the Chinese soldiers(following the direct orders from the government) did to the people of Tibet, Uighur, and other ethnic minorities. This includes the mass murder/massacre of those people and total annexation of their sovereignty + land. And if Japan were to give an apology, it's only the direct relatives/families of the victims' that should be taken care of, NOT the Chinese GOVERNMENT.
ROFLOL!!!! You win the best kool-aid recipe award! Keep drinking it!
 
Old 08-18-2015, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Manhattan, NYC
902 posts, read 632,547 times
Reputation: 834
Quote:
Originally Posted by good3352 View Post
Their children need to appologize on behalf of their family eventhought its not their fault....if they dont, they dont have sympathy with victim....especially its japanese culture to apologize on behalf of his family.....not doing it is not appologizing.... anyways my point is japanese did not appologize enough....they dont appologize annually like germans and paid too little for compensation to korea....they paid 30 times more to philipines which they damage far less than korea....they should compensate enough money to korea....

Let me give the definition of appologizing....appologizing should be done until victims feel okay and accept appolize but still appologize to the point that victims start feeling the sincere mind of appologizer and forgiving....if victims demand appologies, it means that appologizing is not enough and sincerelity is not felt thus still feel the anger..
To be fair, there are also stories such as the Korean government accepted whatever amount Japan gave to apologize with the 1965 treaty. The Korean government, if it had the slightest will to represent its citizens, should have refused to sign this paper as such and include conditions to compensate directly the Korean citizens as well.

Instead, they just took the money. At best, its naivety, but it's almost criminal in fact.

So indeed, Japan is in fault to not try to resolve the matter in a "better" way but that was only possible because of the stupidity of the Korean government as well. One does not go without the other in this case.
 
Old 08-18-2015, 10:09 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by OZpharmer View Post
China, specifically its GOVERNMENT is not entitled to ask Japan for an apology because of what the Chinese soldiers(following the direct orders from the government) did to the people of Tibet, Uighur, and other ethnic minorities. This includes the mass murder/massacre of those people and total annexation of their sovereignty + land. And if Japan were to give an apology, it's only the direct relatives/families of the victims' that should be taken care of, NOT the Chinese GOVERNMENT.
LMAO.

The Chinese government is evil, so any country killing innocent Chinese people is justified.

What exactly did the Chinese government do to Tibet and other minorities? You mean provided decent education, healthcare, transportation and rapidly enhanced their standard of living so that they didn't have to live like in the primitive society any more? You really have read too much Western anti-China propaganda, but please, please use some common sense or read some unbiased books to have a better idea of such issues. Can you?

What the Chinese government did to the minority is a million times kinder than what the US did to the natives, or what the UK did to most of its colonies. But of course you don't want to mention that. How exactly did the US/UK made amends to the atrocities they committed? Not much.

As to government vs. people, haven't thought about this: when Germany apologized for the Holocaust, is it to the Israel government, or to millions of Jewish people?
 
Old 08-18-2015, 10:19 AM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,278,474 times
Reputation: 7586
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
He's right though. At what point is an apology not enough? Japanese textbooks and the Yasukuni Shrine are their business and not really something outsiders should interfere with. You hardly ever see Japan interfere with Chinese or Korean textbooks which are equally full of omissions and lies. Outside of South Korea and China, no one in Asia cares about Japan's apologies, Taiwan which is a foreign colony hardly ever raises a voice about it.
You make so little sense that I want to cry.

So apologize verbally on one hand, and then wipe out history right away on the other? What people need is not just apologies, but true remorse. And visiting the Yasukuni shrine shows the Japanese government still worships and glorifies war criminals, and changing history textbook essentially is telling the younger generation "nothing happened". All this apologies are supposed to show remorse and regret and prevent such crimes happen again, or do you think after saying "I am sorry" it is all done?

Japan did some great things in Taiwan, such as improved education and healthcare, and didn't exactly mass murder thousands if not millions of innocent lives. It is quite different for China and Korea.

Outside Asia no one cares about Japan's apologies? This is like saying outside the Jewish community, no body cares about Germany's apologies. It is so wrong and stupid, as if the Chinese and Korean lives are worth less than the Jews. When you say "no one", you really are talking about western countries, but sorry, China's population alone is more than Europe and America combined, so I guess your argument fails miserably.
 
Old 08-18-2015, 05:02 PM
 
1,379 posts, read 1,816,475 times
Reputation: 980
Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
You make so little sense that I want to cry.

So apologize verbally on one hand, and then wipe out history right away on the other? What people need is not just apologies, but true remorse. And visiting the Yasukuni shrine shows the Japanese government still worships and glorifies war criminals, and changing history textbook essentially is telling the younger generation "nothing happened". All this apologies are supposed to show remorse and regret and prevent such crimes happen again, or do you think after saying "I am sorry" it is all done?

Japan did some great things in Taiwan, such as improved education and healthcare, and didn't exactly mass murder thousands if not millions of innocent lives. It is quite different for China and Korea.

Outside Asia no one cares about Japan's apologies? This is like saying outside the Jewish community, no body cares about Germany's apologies. It is so wrong and stupid, as if the Chinese and Korean lives are worth less than the Jews. When you say "no one", you really are talking about western countries, but sorry, China's population alone is more than Europe and America combined, so I guess your argument fails miserably.
This whole problem started because Korea and China were excluded from the Treaty of San Francisco and had no input. Frankly, no apology or actions such as fixing textbooks or removing Yasukuni will ever truly resolve this issue. The biggest difference with Germany and Japan is that almost all of Europe had input on Germany's fate while Korea and China did not have any input on Japan's fate, Poland for example took over most of Germany's eastern territories while France took back Alsace-Lorraine. For Japan to be truly apologetic, it will have to give up the Pinnacle Islands to China and the Liancourt Rocks to Korea and also stop its containment policies against China or its apologies will stay hollow even if it gets rid of its shrine and etc. Germany for example is not hostile to any of its neighbors whereas Japan is extremely hostile to China which is why the comparison to Japan and Germany are not quite apt. I am not a big fan of China and Korea pushing this issue because it will only lead to a more recalcitrant and angry Japan that will be even more hostile and less willing to acquiesce to more important demands. It is too much political capital to waste on an issue that will hardly lead to any tangible benefits.
 
Old 08-18-2015, 06:27 PM
 
Location: Asia
2,761 posts, read 1,104,435 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
I am not a big fan of China and Korea pushing this issue because it will only lead to a more recalcitrant and angry Japan that will be even more hostile and less willing to acquiesce to more important demands. It is too much political capital to waste on an issue that will hardly lead to any tangible benefits.
What are these demands to which you believe Japan should acquiesce?
 
Old 08-18-2015, 07:40 PM
 
Location: Singapore
156 posts, read 233,978 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Let me guess.

Keep bitching?
I have to keep you in line here. China is not merely 'bitching' about the fact that Japan has yet to apologize for its wartime atrocities but also the fact that its leaders are constantly venerating the perpetrators of these atrocities as though they are demi-gods.

Idolize and fawn over Japan if you must, but remove your rose-tinted glasses once in a while.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > World Forums > Asia
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top