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Old 08-18-2015, 08:19 PM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,628,426 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
This whole problem started because Korea and China were excluded from the Treaty of San Francisco and had no input. Frankly, no apology or actions such as fixing textbooks or removing Yasukuni will ever truly resolve this issue. The biggest difference with Germany and Japan is that almost all of Europe had input on Germany's fate while Korea and China did not have any input on Japan's fate, Poland for example took over most of Germany's eastern territories while France took back Alsace-Lorraine. For Japan to be truly apologetic, it will have to give up the Pinnacle Islands to China and the Liancourt Rocks to Korea and also stop its containment policies against China or its apologies will stay hollow even if it gets rid of its shrine and etc. Germany for example is not hostile to any of its neighbors whereas Japan is extremely hostile to China which is why the comparison to Japan and Germany are not quite apt. I am not a big fan of China and Korea pushing this issue because it will only lead to a more recalcitrant and angry Japan that will be even more hostile and less willing to acquiesce to more important demands. It is too much political capital to waste on an issue that will hardly lead to any tangible benefits.
Precisely. The US has basically given japan a pass, and because of both China and Korea's internal problems, they were unable to get their act together to force the japanese to face history correctly. Now it's too late; the japanese think that they are a normal country and have no responsibility to history. What China should do is to build up its military and reserve the right to erase japan if the situation warrants.

 
Old 08-18-2015, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,379,062 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepillow View Post
I have to keep you in line here. China is not merely 'bitching' about the fact that Japan has yet to apologize for its wartime atrocities but also the fact that its leaders are constantly venerating the perpetrators of these atrocities as though they are demi-gods.

Idolize and fawn over Japan if you must, but remove your rose-tinted glasses once in a while.
I'm just going to post this, again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssued_by_Japan
 
Old 08-18-2015, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,379,062 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Precisely. The US has basically given japan a pass, and because of both China and Korea's internal problems, they were unable to get their act together to force the japanese to face history correctly. Now it's too late; the japanese think that they are a normal country and have no responsibility to history. What China should do is to build up its military and reserve the right to erase japan if the situation warrants.




You are utterly incorrigible.
 
Old 08-18-2015, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Singapore
156 posts, read 234,173 times
Reputation: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
I'm just going to post this, again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssued_by_Japan
Let's make things clearer using an analogy, a layman one if I may:

A gang of burglars burst into your house one night killing everyone in sight. Years later, the gang leader finally makes an apology to you while unabashedly revering the perpetrators in an annual event that's grand and elaborate, one that's orchestrated to tell everyone in the neighbourhood that he feels there's nothing wrong about the crime.

You do know there are apologies and there are half-baked apologies, don't you?
 
Old 08-19-2015, 01:24 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,781 posts, read 5,139,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lepillow View Post
I have to keep you in line here. China is not merely 'bitching' about the fact that Japan has yet to apologize for its wartime atrocities but also the fact that its leaders are constantly venerating the perpetrators of these atrocities as though they are demi-gods.

Idolize and fawn over Japan if you must, but remove your rose-tinted glasses once in a while.
I honestly don't give a crap about how the Japanese regards their history. It's an non-issue to me, we have way bigger problems than Japan's random shrine.

And frankly, watching Korea and China getting so butthurt over such matter is simply hilarious, especially China - the fact that a country that has committed even uglier atrocities to its own people for numerous times actually has the face to tell someone else to 'apologise' over and over again is just laughable.

As for the rose-tinted glasses, I never said what Japan did wasn't wrong, obviously it was, just that I don't relate to such sentiment. And you can keep accusing Taiwanese of being Japonophile, we do not care.

Last edited by Greysholic; 08-19-2015 at 01:32 AM..
 
Old 08-19-2015, 03:10 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,379,062 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepillow View Post
You do know there are apologies and there are half-baked apologies, don't you?
Yup. There are also half-baked analogies...

Quote:
Let's make things clearer using an analogy, a layman one if I may:

A gang of burglars burst into your house one night killing everyone in sight. Years later, the gang leader finally makes an apology to you while unabashedly revering the perpetrators in an annual event that's grand and elaborate, one that's orchestrated to tell everyone in the neighbourhood that he feels there's nothing wrong about the crime.
How about:

A gang of burglars burst into my grandparents' house one night in the 1940's, killing some people. In the aftermath, some of them were killed by the police; some of them were arrested and sentenced to prison; some are arrested and found not guilty; some of them get away. Years later, the children and grandchildren of some of these gang members make an apology to me, even though they have nothing to do with it, and truth be told, neither do I. It doesn't erase the fact that I have ancestors who may have died or otherwise suffered at the hands of their ancestors, but, the bigger concerns in my life now are that I have a family, a business, and a life which exists totally separately from the incidents that occurred four decades before I was born, and a full decade before my parents were born, for that matter.
 
Old 08-19-2015, 03:30 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,628,426 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post




You are utterly incorrigible.
And.....I am quite proud of it!
 
Old 08-19-2015, 03:36 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,628,426 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Yup. There are also half-baked analogies...


How about:

A gang of burglars burst into my grandparents' house one night in the 1940's, killing some people. In the aftermath, some of them were killed by the police; some of them were arrested and sentenced to prison; some are arrested and found not guilty; some of them get away. Years later, the children and grandchildren of some of these gang members make an apology to me, even though they have nothing to do with it, and truth be told, neither do I. It doesn't erase the fact that I have ancestors who may have died or otherwise suffered at the hands of their ancestors, but, the bigger concerns in my life now are that I have a family, a business, and a life which exists totally separately from the incidents that occurred four decades before I was born, and a full decade before my parents were born, for that matter.
I think it's a lot easier for Americans and other foreigners to frown upon or ridicule Chinese resentment against Japan's past actions simply because....well, they and their past ancestors did not actually suffer these atrocities like the Chinese and their ancestors did.

Hence people like you don't have any right to be telling the Chinese of any generation what to think or how to feel about their past and Japan's past.

My suggestion is only a strong military that is a hard lesson learned from that horrible past of Chinese weakness. I don't care what the Chinese actually do with their history, or how they choose to use/manipulate it. It's their right because their ancestors suffered through it, not mine.
 
Old 08-19-2015, 03:48 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,379,062 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
I think it's a lot easier for Americans and other foreigners to frown upon or ridicule Chinese resentment against Japan's past actions simply because....well, they and their past ancestors did not actually suffer these atrocities like the Chinese and their ancestors did.

Hence people like you don't have any right to be telling the Chinese of any generation what to think or how to feel about their past and Japan's past.

My suggestion is only a strong military that is a hard lesson learned from that horrible past of Chinese weakness. I don't care what the Chinese actually do with their history, or how they choose to use/manipulate it. It's their right because their ancestors suffered through it, not mine.
It's easy to ridicule because it's pathologically childish, and because as others have pointed out, the Chinese have done atrocious things to one another in the years since Japanese atrocities took place and in many cases, the people who perpetrated these grevious acts are still venerated as national heroes and enjoy a whitewashed, or even fictionalized portrayal of history.

you also would evidently like to see the Chinese military make the currently-living Japanese who inherited an ugly past through no fault of their own pay with a war, which is funny because you blow your top over the treatment of dogs in China and hold the Chinese as a nation and people responsible for their supposed cultural barbarism.
 
Old 08-19-2015, 05:14 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,628,426 times
Reputation: 7407
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
It's easy to ridicule because it's pathologically childish, and because as others have pointed out, the Chinese have done atrocious things to one another in the years since Japanese atrocities took place and in many cases, the people who perpetrated these grevious acts are still venerated as national heroes and enjoy a whitewashed, or even fictionalized portrayal of history.

you also would evidently like to see the Chinese military make the currently-living Japanese who inherited an ugly past through no fault of their own pay with a war, which is funny because you blow your top over the treatment of dogs in China and hold the Chinese as a nation and people responsible for their supposed cultural barbarism.
LOL! Think what you may, but any nation would be stupid to be unprepared for war, and China is no different. The lessons of history for China suffering through Japanese brutality should be clear. Chinese domestic history in no way mitigate Japanese responsibility, but like I always say, if someone is insincere about an apology, then why keep harping on it? Just be ready to strike hard when the situation warrants.

And yes, I do think butchering dogs in heinous ways right on the street in public is barbaric, like most normal people. But that's another topic.
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