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Old 08-14-2015, 11:41 AM
 
Location: In a Galaxy far, far away called Germany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
The refusal to give a comprehensive apology to China has more to do with Cold War realities than anything to do with culture. During the Cold War, apologizing to the PRC would give a sort of moral credence to communism and would also show the world that Communists were also victims of capitalist powers during a period in which the US did not want to show Communists as anything more than evil. The US actually pressured Japan to apologize to South Korea which led to the 1965 Treaty. There obviously was nothing like this to the PRC since the US obviously did not want Japan to engage in any tech transfer with the PRC or give any sort of compensation.
Sure, and I get that. I was just addressing the "worship" of these war criminals that is still done by the Japanese politicians when they visit their shrines for the dead.

 
Old 08-14-2015, 11:50 AM
 
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The Japanese and to a certain extent Nazi Germany are heavily demonized in modern times simply because they lost the war. Win a war they call you a conquerer, lose a war they call you a murderer. The Chinese government essentially use the Japanese as a propaganda tool. The people need a common enemy to unite against, through the eyes of the Chinese, the Japanese can do no right. If Abe get on his knees and begged for forgiveness the Chinese will find fault in it.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,776 posts, read 5,126,284 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
The Japanese and to a certain extent Nazi Germany are heavily demonized in modern times simply because they lost the war. Win a war they call you a conquerer, lose a war they call you a murderer. The Chinese government essentially use the Japanese as a propaganda tool. The people need a common enemy to unite against, through the eyes of the Chinese, the Japanese can do no right. If Abe get on his knees and begged for forgiveness the Chinese will find fault in it.
Word.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:14 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,268,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
I think many Chinese people know Japan apologized before. Their ex prime minster had a famous conversation with Mao, and it is said Mao "thanked" Japan for letting the communist party thrive during WWII.

The major issue is, Chinese and Koreans do not believe their apology is sincere, and some events seemed to suggest so too.

exactly.

Everyone knows Japan "apologized" many times, but often they are taking one step forward and then several steps backward. Visiting the Yasukuni Shrine repeatedly definitely doesn't help, nor does revising the textbooks.

Verbal apology means little if your actions show otherwise.

Last edited by botticelli; 08-14-2015 at 12:22 PM..
 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:22 PM
 
10,847 posts, read 11,268,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
The Japanese and to a certain extent Nazi Germany are heavily demonized in modern times simply because they lost the war. Win a war they call you a conquerer, lose a war they call you a murderer. The Chinese government essentially use the Japanese as a propaganda tool. The people need a common enemy to unite against, through the eyes of the Chinese, the Japanese can do no right. If Abe get on his knees and begged for forgiveness the Chinese will find fault in it.
You are right about China (and Korea) using the Japan history for political gains, but that doesn't mean that history wasn't as bad as people think it is.

Funny that whenever it comes to the Holocaust, nobody would say anything to defend the Nazis, under any circumstances, labels like "anti-Semitism" etc will be thrown immediately if it happens. When it comes to atrocity Japan committed, all of a sudden, it is somewhat different, subtle but noticeable .

Is it because what Japan did was any better than Germany? No, IMO it was only worse and more cruel. Is it because the victims were Asians, instead of the Jews who have a louder voice in the US congress? You really have to think what has caused the difference. The white dominated world and the press simply care more about the white Jews than the Asians they aren't familiar with.

And trust me, what Japan did in China and the rest of Asia was not any kinder than Nazi Germany in the 1940s. Only worse.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 12:27 PM
 
Location: southern california
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Public apology is easy amends is harder
 
Old 08-14-2015, 01:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Article on CNN:

Shinzo Abe: 'Grief' for WWII, but no new Japan apology - CNN.com



I'm interested to see how China reacts to this. I ran it by my fiance and she wasn't happy, but she also wasn't aware that Japan had ever apologized for its actions... for those who aren't aware:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssued_by_Japan
I believe Abe is being foolish. It would be impossible to apologize too much for such an event (WWII and related atrocities). The apology isn't for Japan, but for the other countries that were effected. Why does Japan get to say when the apology is sufficient?

For example, I live in Kansas, United States. Each time a new governor takes office here they apologize for the crimes against the Native Americans. Something that happened longer ago then WWII. It no longer gets publicity, but each time the Native Americans are thankful and it's a sign of respect towards them.

As an American I believe we should keep Japan close as an ally, but I do not believe Abe is apologetic and it's troubling that he can get elected in Japan. Hopefully the next elected president of Japan can undue the damage he's done with their neighbors. Japan seemingly has some soul searching to do. I read the book Unbroken last winter and while I believe most Japanese are good people, there are obviously some who are not, and I believe those people have done and are doing great harm to their country in the name of nationalism.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 02:09 PM
 
1,378 posts, read 1,815,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
I believe Abe is being foolish. It would be impossible to apologize too much for such an event (WWII and related atrocities). The apology isn't for Japan, but for the other countries that were effected. Why does Japan get to say when the apology is sufficient?

For example, I live in Kansas, United States. Each time a new governor takes office here they apologize for the crimes against the Native Americans. Something that happened longer ago then WWII. It no longer gets publicity, but each time the Native Americans are thankful and it's a sign of respect towards them.

As an American I believe we should keep Japan close as an ally, but I do not believe Abe is apologetic and it's troubling that he can get elected in Japan. Hopefully the next elected president of Japan can undue the damage he's done with their neighbors. Japan seemingly has some soul searching to do. I read the book Unbroken last winter and while I believe most Japanese are good people, there are obviously some who are not, and I believe those people have done and are doing great harm to their country in the name of nationalism.
Native Americans are citizens not foreigners. Apologizing to fellow citizens is a lot less politically difficult than apologizing to foreigners. America compensated Japanese Americans for the internment with almost no political difficulties. Do you see America apologizing to Vietnam for its use of Agent Orange even though the Vietnamese ask for an apology and compensation? In the same manner as Japan, apologizing to Vietnam for the use of Agent Orange is crucial to fixing relations and until that is done the Vietnamese won't completely trust the US.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 02:11 PM
 
4,692 posts, read 3,616,660 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Article on CNN:

Shinzo Abe: 'Grief' for WWII, but no new Japan apology - CNN.com



I'm interested to see how China reacts to this. I ran it by my fiance and she wasn't happy, but she also wasn't aware that Japan had ever apologized for its actions... for those who aren't aware:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ssued_by_Japan
So, if he thinks that those born after the war shouldn't need to apologize, then maybe all those Americans who were born after the dropping of the bombs shouldn't care about that too? Or maybe these japanese born after WWII in Japan should not have to honor their war dead in that Shint shrine? Stupid logic.
 
Old 08-14-2015, 02:14 PM
 
4,692 posts, read 3,616,660 times
Reputation: 7386
Abe serves a very good purpose for China. There are many Chinese in China who harbor a naive fantasy of Sino-Japanese friendship. Abe's antics serve to give them a wake-up call. China and Japan can never be friends or allies because Asia does not have room for two great powers at any one time. For centuries, it was China who led Asia. In the last 150 years, Japan took the reign because of China's severe internal weakness. This is now being corrected and of course the Japanese are very annoyed with this.
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