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Old 09-24-2015, 01:24 PM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,207,320 times
Reputation: 1691

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
Unless you want to tear down every forest and clear every bit of farmable land, there really isn't enough space for everyone to be vegetarians, either. You think that growing crops doesn't have vast environmental consequences? Please. Bottom line is that there are already too many people, and it's only going to get a lot worse.
The is completely untrue. It would actually require FAR less land to feed everyone on a vegetarian or vegan diet than it does to feed people on a diet that includes meat. What do you think we feed the animals we eat? Air? Most of the cropland in the US goes to animal feed. If people stopped eating meat and other animal products, not only would we get back all the space that we house the animals on, we would also get back all cropland that is used to feed those animals.
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Old 09-24-2015, 01:27 PM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,207,320 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
There's nothing worse than the holier-than-thou attitude of a vegetarian/vegan, as if their food choices have no impacts on natural environments. Organics will *never* be able to feed the world's population, which means large crop yields will need a hell of a lot of manipulation through genetic engineering, chemicals and a whole lot of land. And even then, it's really just completely unrealistic.
I understand that it is much easier to call people names than it is to overcome one's own dogma with rational thinking. Not once have I ever in my entire life said that my food choices have no impact, but they do have much less impact than yours.
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Old 09-24-2015, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Fort Collins, USA
1,477 posts, read 2,371,371 times
Reputation: 1819
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYLIER View Post
So you feel that finding enjoyment in torturing and killing animals in a horrific way like they do in China is okay in your book? Why don't you look at the images of the dog meat festival and get back to this forum and tell me if you think this should be banned.
Torturing animals is very bad. That's what happens in slaughterhouses every day. I'm sure it would take me about five seconds to find numerous videos that make that point. Yes, I think that we (the human race in its entirety) should ban animal torture. What I object to is selective outrage (dog or dolphin, vs. pig, cow, or chicken).

Last edited by xeric; 09-24-2015 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:16 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,103 posts, read 13,494,044 times
Reputation: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by xeric View Post
Except for the holier-than-thou attitude of people who happily eat supermarket and restaurant meat (produced in slaughterhouses) and then complain about the inhumanity of killing the more charismatic animals. And note that feeding the domestic vegetarian animals that we eat has the same impact on the environment but feeds far fewer people.
Eating is not a matter of morality, because whether you consume meat or not, your eating habits are in some way detrimental to the natural environment. People have to eat. It's kind of a biological imperative. People can attempt to reduce their impact as much as possible, but the simple reality is that 7+ billion people have a collective enormous impact, even if they were all rabid environmentalists who only ate vegetables. Moral vegetarianism/veganism is a movement to make those individuals feel better, but it's not designed to actually do the environment any good. The goal to make as many people stop eating meat as possible won't save the world, it will just create other types of environmental calamity. I don't disagree that there's some hypocrisy in only wanting to save cute/charismatic animals, but at the same time, the cow is not endangered, and if the goal is to save anything, it should be those organisms that are closest to the brink.
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,103 posts, read 13,494,044 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
The is completely untrue. It would actually require FAR less land to feed everyone on a vegetarian or vegan diet than it does to feed people on a diet that includes meat. What do you think we feed the animals we eat? Air? Most of the cropland in the US goes to animal feed. If people stopped eating meat and other animal products, not only would we get back all the space that we house the animals on, we would also get back all cropland that is used to feed those animals.
I think you've been reading too many PETA pamphlets. It would totally depend on the crops you would want people to eat. And it's not just the amount of room, but yields, the amount of water needed, pesticides (because again, organics will never be able to accomplish the goal you're talking about), etc.
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:26 PM
 
Location: Mexico City, formerly Columbus, Ohio
13,103 posts, read 13,494,044 times
Reputation: 5778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iaskwhy View Post
I understand that it is much easier to call people names than it is to overcome one's own dogma with rational thinking. Not once have I ever in my entire life said that my food choices have no impact, but they do have much less impact than yours.
Maybe, maybe not, considering I haven't said a word about my own diet. Then again, as I said above, diet is not a moral issue for most people. Instead, it's a practical one- it certainly is one for me. Do you grow all your own food? If not, are you really sure about every impact your diet does and doesn't have?
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Old 09-24-2015, 08:38 PM
 
1,770 posts, read 1,207,320 times
Reputation: 1691
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbcmh81 View Post
I think you've been reading too many PETA pamphlets. It would totally depend on the crops you would want people to eat. And it's not just the amount of room, but yields, the amount of water needed, pesticides (because again, organics will never be able to accomplish the goal you're talking about), etc.
I don't think you really understand how inefficient meat production is. I have never mentioned organic anything.
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Old 12-11-2015, 10:39 AM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,358 posts, read 7,029,060 times
Reputation: 4857
Let the Japanese, Faroese, Norwegians, etc., continue their traditions. We don't have the right to impose these standards on them.
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Old 12-11-2015, 04:17 PM
 
4,689 posts, read 3,616,660 times
Reputation: 7386
Do these japanese kill whales just to spite the rest of the world? It seems that they are doing it just to stick a finger in the collective eye of the world. I will raise a toast once the country is old and irrelevant.
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Old 12-11-2015, 05:12 PM
 
Location: South Jersey
13,358 posts, read 7,029,060 times
Reputation: 4857
Quote:
Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
Do these japanese kill whales just to spite the rest of the world? It seems that they are doing it just to stick a finger in the collective eye of the world. I will raise a toast once the country is old and irrelevant.
Japan is a great nation. I wish them only the best.
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