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Old 11-22-2015, 03:04 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
Memorizing things/patterns makes you smart, not the other way round. What important "problem solving skills" will young kids learn anyway?

Learning how to write characters is not that difficult for children either. Besides doing the homework assigned by my teacher, I did not really do anything else, but I still learned to write them quite well. Very few Chinese kids struggle with the characters. Way more struggle with math.
Unless you are well drilled in Chinese which basically means living in a Chinese community, it is fairly difficult to memorise Chinese characters.


Memorisation of any sort is rote learning which is bad and quite prevalent in Asia....hence, kids creativity and ability to 'think outside the box' are shunted. Throughout Asia you have American and European followers or copy cat products which are in turn of low value!!
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Old 11-22-2015, 03:30 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,773 posts, read 5,121,205 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Memorisation of any sort is rote learning which is bad and quite prevalent in Asia....hence, kids creativity and ability to 'think outside the box' are shunted. Throughout Asia you have American and European followers or copy cat products which are in turn of low value!!
I agree with you, Asian education is a ****ing laughing stock and many Asians are too dumb to be aware of it. BS report such as PISA isn't very helpful in terms of breaking the myth, either.

That being said, memorisation is still a very important part of learning a foreign language. Of course the ability of actually "using" the language is far beyond memorising vocabularies, but it's still kinda the basic thing to do.

But for us native speakers...learning Chinese characters is hardly a "task". It's a natural process, like how you learned to speak English in Australia or how an ancient Roman learned to master their crazy cases. Of course there are some really hard words/expressions which are really really old and barely ever used, but that's most certainly not something unique.
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Old 11-22-2015, 03:32 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 735,188 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Unless you are well drilled in Chinese which basically means living in a Chinese community, it is fairly difficult to memorise Chinese characters.
It is true for all languages int he world. English is extremely difficult for Chinese to learn. Less than 1% Chinese college students can carry a conversation in English fluently. If you don't use Chinese, you simply do not have the motivation and opportunity.


Quote:
Memorisation of any sort is rote learning which is bad and quite prevalent in Asia....hence, kids creativity and ability to 'think outside the box' are shunted. Throughout Asia you have American and European followers or copy cat products which are in turn of low value!!
That is BS. I never believe Asians are less creative. In fact Chinese/Japanese seem to be more creative than other Asians who use alphabets.
As I said, learning characters is not difficult at all, easier than learning math.
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:17 PM
 
919 posts, read 602,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
When I take notes I prefer to do it manually. Writing things down enhances memorisation.
Maybe that's true. But I don't agree typing doesn't enhance memorizing as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I also write things down when I study. Many people I know do that as well.

And by going to the bank/post office, I was referring to paperwork in general.

Last but not least, I think it depends on one's field of work. While many don't have to write things down at work, many have to do that all the time.
Would you tell me what field are you in?
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Old 11-22-2015, 08:23 PM
 
919 posts, read 602,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Unless you are well drilled in Chinese which basically means living in a Chinese community, it is fairly difficult to memorise Chinese characters.
It is difficult.

And memorizing English spelling is difficult too.

You typed memorise and I typed memorizing. Whether it is s or z, that's what I am talking about.
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Old 11-22-2015, 09:52 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
It is difficult.

And memorizing English spelling is difficult too.

You typed memorise and I typed memorizing. Whether it is s or z, that's what I am talking about.
Well with the example, we know what we both mean though....In Chinese I don't really think you can make out a character unless it's got at least 50% or so of the strokes written properly. This characteristic is why even if you can master modern Chinese you will not be able to read much from say a writings from the Shang dynasty...


Honestly though, I think Simplified Chinese although ugly does serve it's purpose, but unfortunately has been botched very badly by the inventor as:


1. It looks somewhat out of place when you write it against the characters which are still not simplified. It is not unified.
2. Some characters are simplified to the point where there is no trace of the original character (e.g. Lan as in Lanzhou).
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Old 11-22-2015, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Earth
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romanize the characters

It was done in vietnam and have a crapload of more tones than mandarin.
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Old 11-22-2015, 11:02 PM
 
276 posts, read 204,692 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dangerous-Boy View Post
romanize the characters

It was done in vietnam and have a crapload of more tones than mandarin.
Well Vietnamese is a shining example of a successful model/transition.


Phonetics does play a part in literacy...


Literacy - Country Comparison


Lets compare
Taiwan (96.1%)
China (95.1%)
Vietnam (93.4%)

Going back to my original topic, I think if Bopomofo was widely taught/used in the 1920s there is no doubt you could have lifted people out of poverty quicker...information is power!


Having said all that I appreciate the Chinese character system was setup to unify all dialects and education back then was reserved for the upperclass and also academics....not exactly designed to be universal. It was used as a somewhat "upperclass" trait...to differentiate classes. It served it's purpose, back then...a few hundred years ago!
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Old 11-22-2015, 11:17 PM
 
569 posts, read 372,840 times
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I supposed the unified Chinese tongue was to unify “the Chinese” into one identity; the Chinese identity. It was necessary for the Chinese to governor themselves. Then the necessity of the Central Processor, a Chinese king, to judge all the matters between the different ethnics or cultures would not last. That was the same thing as of in case of Jesus did not return.


The designation of the Mandarin was purely for the simple mastering on communication as earlier as one could speak. This language would be the easiest language for even a three- year- old to be fluent. Hence even a child could tell the matters.


The Cantonese held their prides, stating their tongue was the most ancient and legitimate. They jeered the Mandarin speakers were barking as speaking. That was their bitter remark.


Anyway, the Bopomofo indeed generate fewer combinations, yet it gave you a very distinguished, pure, and clear accent; the unified modern Chinese accent. This accent was almost mechanism with no problems to verbally communicate the technological details. You ask the English tech workers,they don’t communicate in English; especially not on the radios.


Then the characters were meant tocommunicate with the past. But the Tai-Chin young people just like to chase the winds. I don’t know: the some people mean to born to be whores.


Anyway, the chance of the education and the unified identity had been given. The foundation had been proposed. What the people wanted to build on the foundation were their business: be them Spanish, English, African, FIFA 2000 etc. If they love to destroy their parental identities, and run toward Japanese, Russian, the Filipinos, who am I to judge?

Last edited by CPPU12345; 11-22-2015 at 11:38 PM.. Reason: EDITED. fixing the computer
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Old 11-23-2015, 03:10 AM
 
919 posts, read 602,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Well with the example, we know what we both mean though....In Chinese I don't really think you can make out a character unless it's got at least 50% or so of the strokes written properly.
These three characters below are different variants for one character.

让: simplified Chinese character
譲: Japanese Kanji
讓: traditional Chinese character

What % of those strokes are same? I don't think 50% or more.
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