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Old 11-21-2015, 09:07 AM
Location: Starting a walkabout
1,940 posts, read 940,772 times
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Originally Posted by DamselInDalston View Post
My mother is British Indian but my father isn't, and I grew up in London. I've visited India several times and everytime I come back feeling so thankful that my mother married a non-Indian man and that we live in the UK. I can't imagine how horrible it would be to be a young woman growing up in India!

Indian men complaining of racist assumptions against them is a supreme irony given that every advert, film and music video in the country features scantily clad white women being fetishised, groped and generally degraded by horrid, sexually predatory Indian men! It's the single most racist country I have ever been to and it was incredibly embarrassing how much creepy fawning and harassment my blonde friend was subjected to when she decided to visit.

Many of the Indian men you encounter on the streets will spit, empty their noses and excrete on the roads which is just grotesque and uncouth and not something I've encountered in any other countrymen, no matter how poor. I've been stalked, groped and cat called more times each day I spent on the the Indian streets/ in public transport than my entire life in London, which is hardly the safest of cities in itself! There is also a BIG problem with alcoholism amongst working class Indian men and nearly every affluent household will have a maid who is forced to work under in humane conditions (with no formal contract or worker rights) to support her abusive husband's drinking habit.

Indian culture raises men to be dowry gold-diggers (all other patriarchal cultures have the opposite, a bride price, to compensate women for their domestic labour and their sacrifice in moving into and caring for the husband's family) and social life for the upper classes revolves around gaudy, obscenely ostentatious wedding paid for by the bride's family, where the groom proudly accepts jewellery, cars, expensive watches from his bride! And so much of the daily gossip I've witnessed revolves around how much to save and spend for a daughter's wedding or how much a son's new wife is going to be 'worth'. This is especially distasteful when juxtaposed with the obvious and crippling poverty in the country.

I think this definitely makes South Asian countries the worst for women because not one other patriarchal culture (be it East Asia, Middle East or North Africa) would condone men shameless exploitating their wives financially instead of providing for them (it's so bad that thousands of women are killed each year for not giving their husbands enough gold / land / cash). So in my opinion the way in which India differs from Thailand and China (other than these obviously being far more economically and infrastructurally developed) is that it is a lot more unsafe for women (for example, even in the small towns in China and Thailand I regularly saw women in western clothes cycling and riding their scooters around at all hours without worry) and there is dowry rather than bride price, which alters social dynamics very significantly and makes it a much more misogynistic society.

So visiting India is an eye opening experience for me because it teaches me to be thankful for everything I have and to realise how very tough some women have it but it's just about my least favourite/ most uncivilised country in every imaginable way and it is without question the worst politically stable place for a woman to visit, especially a white woman.
What you are saying is true but you are coming across as a judgmental with holier than thou attitude.

Things are changing fast in India with regards to dowry and caste. I abhor dowry and clearly stated that when my parents tried to find me a bride decades ago. As a highly educated professional I was a desirable "catch" and many girls parents wanted me to be their SIL and have their equally educated professional daughters married to me. But when they heard that dowry was a no-no they backed off, thinking there was something wrong with me and that was the reason I did not want dowry. If I had accepted it I would have had the choice of girls. So don't blame the groom's parents alone; the girl's parents too perpetuate this system. Thank God that the system is changing and neither of my nephews asked for or were given dowries or any material gifts.

And Indian men do their share of the household work, especially with regards to the things they are capable of. My wife does the cooking but I do the yard work and heavy cleaning and we both share the duties of taking care of our child.

I wish you the best (not sarcastic) in your future in regards to finding a life partner who will make you happy.
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Old 11-25-2015, 01:54 PM
Location: East Coast of the United States
17,277 posts, read 19,566,600 times
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Originally Posted by kamban View Post
I abhor dowry and clearly stated that when my parents tried to find me a bride decades ago.
I think that dowry is a small price to pay for a husband to financially support his wife for the rest of her life.
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Old 11-25-2015, 05:08 PM
96 posts, read 46,229 times
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best food

best discoveries

best culture

best women

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Old 11-26-2015, 11:00 AM
3,339 posts, read 2,081,790 times
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Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer View Post
I think that dowry is a small price to pay for a husband to financially support his wife for the rest of her life.
If the dowry goes to the newly weds, then the bride paid for her own needs
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Old 11-26-2015, 04:08 PM
Location: Gatineau, QC, Canada
3,402 posts, read 4,450,345 times
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I just came back from India. I think the food is great and there's never a moment that is....dull there. It's certainly a very stimulating place. If I can compare India to Nepal, of which I spent a lot more time in, I would say Indians are a little more gruff than the Nepalis. Everything seems like a bit of a bureaucratic hassle, but that's part of the fun.
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Old 11-30-2015, 01:55 AM
1 posts, read 709 times
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i think all Indian peoples are good
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:11 AM
329 posts, read 297,139 times
Reputation: 144
Originally Posted by mstnghu2 View Post
I'll start. I went to India in 2000. I stayed in both Mumbai and Pune during my visit. I also visited Mahabaleshwar, which was beautiful.

In my opinion, India is an enigma. On one hand, the sights and sounds can be mesmerizing. One thing that blew me away was just how good the food was. I wasn't necessarily expecting that. Most of the people I encountered were very friendly and hospitable.

Then, on the other hand, I couldn't believe how disgustingly dirty and poverty-stricken most of it was. I've never seen people openly pooping in the middle of the street before like it was completely acceptable. The infrastructure is a pathetic joke and everywhere I went, it just felt like complete chaos. True story: My brother and I took a bus ride from Mumbai to Pune. The bus driver informed all the passengers at the beginning of the trip that we'd be taking the brand new highway that connected Mumbai and Pune. It was supposed to save quite a bit of time. Halfway to Pune, we discovered workers standing in middle of the road, laying asphalt. The highway wasn't even finished yet! I couldn't believe how absurd that was and yet the Indian people on the bus just took it in stride because that's such a typical sort of thing to see happen! I just felt like the country is very "backwards" and dysfunctional and people living there don't really seem to see anything wrong with it. I enjoyed my experience but I don't think I'd ever go back. I also contracted a stomach bug that was still lingering for for almost 3 weeks after I returned home. I don't know if my stomach could handle another India trip.

I currently happen to live in an area that has a very large Indian population. While I was actually in India, I found the people to be friendly and sociable. For some reason, that seems to change when they come here. They tend come across as very insular and not really interested in integrating with other ethnic groups here. This forum is actually a perfect example. I can't even tell you how many times an Indian has posted in the CA forums about relocation and they're always asking where the "Indian neighborhoods" or "Indian apartments" are. Based on numerous personal encounters, I also find them to be very pushy and demanding, especially in customer service situations...ironic, considering that the idea of good customer service is pretty much non-existent in India. I have noticed though that my encounters with Sikhs have been much more positive than other Indians on average. They strike me as being more friendly and sociable, just based on my personal interactions with them.

Obviously there is a little truth to any stereotype and not every negative attribute applies to every situation. These are just some of my personal observations from not just visiting India, but living in an area that has many Indian people also living here.

Well we also feel shocked when we see racism in America, when we see the 'dirty' aka semi-nude people smooching in puvlic...it is disgusting to us...all the ebaches are an eye-sore due to the utter lack of people here for a public space. eople treat pubic areas as their bedroom or batroom and wlak around in very little clothing.
About the 'dirt' in India, many people did not know that just about the evry last of the diamonds (tons and tons of diamonds and gems) were stilen an looted by the Britich. Just like any poor neighbourhood (yes I have seen poor and filty neighbourhoods in America) India has just gained Independence about 63 years ago. The BRitsh left the coutry looted and messed up with partition issues and the ensuing violence. How cleanwas America during the Great Depression? If you didn't see the people fret and act shocked an entitled at the highway that was under construction, taht is because the people there has an immense sens f acceptance to things out of their control. Poeple here drive around aggresisvely and even drive at high speeds in heavy rains. There are several times that roads are often blocked off for construction, even partially. So many times one does see the dust and stuff coming rom constructions here in America. Finally, with a large population that is just getting onto its feat (undefeated) after so much abuse fro the British, it is really insensituve to make judgemental remarks. America has been free for a long time, became a superpower through through the Atomic bomb and has had freedom to develop over time. One muct not compare the two. India is one of the most ancient civilizations. When teh west was still living in caves, the INdian civilizationw as thriving and advanced. Theere were lots of riches and we still have tons of old palaces and legacies that are remibders of its granduers in the past. Just like there are cycles, India has goen through several cycles of glory and devsatation and rebirthing again. One can never cpmpare such a resilient culture and civiliation with a newly powerful west. One must respect and learn from each other over resiliently evolving through all the changes. Also, India has NEVER had any slaves at all. India has also Never invaded another country. India giften some of the major religions to th world, including a very secular Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikkhism. It also gave 'non-violence' . In fact it is stated that even Martin Luther King was inspired through Mahathma Gandhi's successful non-violence movement against the British.
Even if there is poverty, India did not make its headway like how Americans took over the land through destroying th native Americans here. So materialistically the west mght be a pwoer at present. But one must learn that cylcles of change keep happening. Indian cvililzation (and also the Greek and Mayan) cultures arose a long long time ago, and have had their days of glory and devastation. It does not take anything away from it that the current stage/cycle ir about a new independence, struggling on its feet after being looted disrespectfully by the BRitsih for about 200 years, That it is already on its feet is such a bigger thing than the struggles or poverty. Again, even a poor persone ats healthy food inIndiam hot freshly cooke dfood. It is not as poor as it seems to a western perspective. We have better healthcare, education and transport systems than in th west. More on that later. Briefly, one cannot be independent in America until one becomes a teenager and gets a car, licence insurance etc. Costly affair. In India I was independent since age 8, travelling anywhere I wanted (till 10-11 I was only allowed to go to school and back). From age 11-12, I could go to any friends hous or relatives by myself using the excellent public transport system. Even though it looks chaotic to the westerner's eye, more collisions happen in America than in India. Also, I have gotten into accidents here but barely any in India despite travelling a lot. With healthcare one cannot even get a doctor on the same day one is sick here. In India I would have someone come to the house take a blood sample, call me with the results and I get to see the doctor within an hour. It is immensely much much more easy to see an exellent and honest doctor ata reasonable price in INdia than in America. Education: people with meri get admissions into the pestigious universities and very little cost to them. In America, for any simple degree a person gets out of college with ridiculous education loans without the salaries that can compesnate for the money spent on the courss. I have also seen that the education is pretty rigorous in India and no less than in the west. Kids also behave much better in the classrooms there, One could ahve a class of 40 kids that act like aclass of 10 kids around here. I wrote all this not to be offensive. But to finally speak up agaisnt a lot of myths and stereotypes based on the exerenals. Our philosophy is more focussed on inner and spiritual advancement before exterbal advanmcement. People (until recently) are much less materailistc than in the west. So one does not see flashy things even if someone has gold and riches stored away, Overall the Indian culture and philosophy is one of humilty and humbleness. So it looks deceptively 'backward' as yous ay so. Backward is as backward thinks. To us a lot of the western ways come across as pretty immature and transient and sometimes irreverant and degraded. To each their own. Most INdians are too polite to say things like this and are extremely self critical. THey take the critisms to heart but don' always question the western ways. It is humble to a fault. My two cents, having seen and heard stuff at America and other places in the west and having grown up in Incredible India.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:17 AM
329 posts, read 297,139 times
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Originally Posted by Neuling View Post
Indians are still somewhat racist, there is a Bollywood slot on Portuguese TV now. Gee, all those actresses look like Europeans, not real Indians. I have friends in India, normal people, none of them looks like those Bollywood stars. But darker-skinned people, especially women, don't seem to be welcome in Bollywood.

Progressive thinkers are in danger these days as the Hindu radicals have created a rather tense atmosphere. Govind Pansare for instance was killed earlier this year because he advocated things conservative Hindus don't like, for instance marriage across different castes.

And of course there is the sexual violence problem, with regard to which even some politicians make absurd statements defending rapists.
Racism is barely a wod one can use for Indians. There are plenty of dark-skinend actresses. Look at South-India cinema. Bollywood is not India, juts like Hollywood is not America. Between there are very few Black actresses in Hollywood.

One only hears one angle of events. So one assumes that Hindu radicals have created a tense atmosphere. Truth is has been very diverse and several groups have their own agendas. Check google.in rathen than google.com to get more objective news.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:29 AM
329 posts, read 297,139 times
Reputation: 144
Originally Posted by bus man View Post
I am a white American, and I've never been to India. All of the pictures and videos I have seen of it (except for the Taj Mahal) make it look like a horrid, squalid, Third World dump. I can't even begin to imagine riding on their trains, packed in like sardines (or standing on the roof) and having to worry about pickpockets and all, not to mention being hours and hours late to my destination. And I've heard enough about the misogynistic rape culture to make me NEVER want to take my wife or daughter there. So no, India is not on my travel bucket list.

My first job out of college, my boss was an Indian man, apparently one of high caste. I did not like him, to put it nicely. He was rude, condescending, arrogant, and just plain not very nice. More recently, there is a missionary couple at my church; the wife is a white American and the husband is an Indian. She is very pleasant and gracious, with a true gift for hospitality. He is a bit arrogant and carries an attitude of inflexibility, that people should do as he wants, even if someone is trying to do them a favor; though he does at least make an attempt at being polite. After my most recent interactions with them, I decided not to support the mission work they do (worthy though it appears to be). They spend most of their time in India (I cannot even begin to fathom why the wife would want to live there, but that's her issue), but when they're here, I don't go out of my way to socialize with him. (Their kids definitely got their personalities from their mother; they are delightful.)

So I guess you could say that, based on my extremely limited experience, I don't have a particularly high opinion of Indian people. But I don't dislike them to the extent that I would be mean to one or anything; I just don't go out of my way to connect with any of them.
Same here...we get teh same feelings about Americans. There is micommunication due to cultural dfefrences. However, our past expereince with an arrogant snobbish British white-lord makes us acutely aware of pre-existing prejudices when it comes up in a western person. You have only seen the negative images and have some negative notions. It probably comes across to th others and they respond in kind. When the media shows Ameria, it shows tall buildings and women in bikinis. When they show India, they show mostly the very poor and crodwed places. The don't show the scary Urban streets in America, theyd don't make documentaries about teen pregnancies, racism, brutal volence, mindless gun-culture, alcohilims, broken family systems, having a coupe of ste-parents and half brothers and sisters, the bland food or the aggressive driving and aggressive people. They don't make documentaries about how America has th largest number of rape cases in the world!! they don't make documentaries about the immenes about of domestic violence, the lack of community support for raisning kids, how kids have barey a community to help raise them, how so many kids are drugged for ADHD medications, the drug problem, the promiscuity and STDs.
No. THey make documnetaries about tall buildings and the exterior attractiveness of this place. Come sto INdia they don't see its rih heritage, they don't show the rich weddings, the huge palaces, the royal and grand places. I have NEVER been pickpoceted in all my life in India. And I have been travelling in public buses since 8 years old.THere is sexual violence in America. So many cases of step dads or baby sitters avusing kids. Just a lot of sexual abuse happens. Dating violence. Overall. here the women are 'convinced' to put out even at the tender agea sof 13-15. I consider that sexual abuse too. And that is rampant here. I dpn't blame anyone but the emdia for the negative and half-informed opinions. I only wanted to all what I have seen and question. I am not a person who just believes what is in the media. I also used to think Ameria is all perfect. Never knew such tornadoes and massive scarry floods happen here...never knoew why people are so insecure and carry guns in a so-called safe country? MOst people in INdia don't care about guns. I wals felt much safer in INdia than I do here. Also, one has people walking into schools and shooting children?
I don't know about the exterior 'richness'. I have known a lot of stress, racism, violence, sexual and doemstic abuse and filth here too. I don't judge it so much because evry place has its set of good and bad. THere are many nice people here and many arrogant and ignorant people here too. I just don't agree that the grass s greener on this side.
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Old 02-15-2016, 09:34 AM
329 posts, read 297,139 times
Reputation: 144
Originally Posted by dsb62574 View Post
I have no negative opinions of Indians. I have met many in school, college, and work. They were all friendly people who came off slightly insular at first. I am sure, like everywhere else, India has its share of both good and bad individuals.

India is a different matter. I have not visited, but I find the extreme income inequality, poor infastructue, and lack of public services I have read about alarming. I feel the loss of the caste system was a good first step, but it will take time to effect real change on the populace.
The caste system is overexaggerated in the west. Simply put it is just a denotion of one's coomunity. MOst people are proud of their own caste, be it hugh or low. It came about as a division of the society for various atsks, such as 'warrior clan, preisty/scholar clan, busniessmen class and cleaner clan'. Everyone has respect. One cannot eve distinguish between the various castes in everyday life. How can one? People don't look a certainw ay due to their caste. So if one meets a coworker one cannot really know which caste he/she belongs to.
Different story in America, one can tell rightaway if it is a black or white people. Hence the racism here is quite hard to erase, since people can have their prejudices triggered. Most of the wealthy retired home and places I have seen in America are dominated by the white. Most of the poor and risky areas are dominated by the Backs. I think that stands out a lot.
Also, most people don't know that India has never had slavery. Ever. And never invaded another country.
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