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Old 10-29-2015, 07:01 PM
 
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Hi All,

Just wondering, what if, likely scenarios? Just interested in economically.

What would the implications be on South Korea and Japan? I'd imagine both would suffer with South China run by KMT and aided by the Americans economically. Japan would less likely be the powerhouse it is today given the US would need to split funds between South China and Japan...

Would a stable, decent government in South China produce decent competition for likes of Toyota et al? Id think so....
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Old 10-30-2015, 03:22 PM
 
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If the KMT had held China, the whole country would be a lot smaller (no Tibet or Xinjiang), no nukes and a Brazilian style economy writ large. Or something like an India.
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Old 10-30-2015, 04:42 PM
 
Location: Taipei
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What makes you think that KMT would produce a stable, decent government? The party has always been a piece of **** ever since its establishment back the early 1900s. There was corruption on top of corruption, assassination on top of assassination, the party members cared nothing but themselves, just like they are today.

China would be as ****ed-up as it was under Mao had KMT won the civil war. The economy would be as laughable and the human rights record would be just as bad, if not worse(see the White Terror era in Taiwan, it was pathetic).

The only possible difference would be that KMT probably wouldn't be such a see-you-next-Tuesday to its neighbors like China is nowadays. That's about it. Both parties are equally cruel to the Chinese population and could not care less about their well-beings.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pennyone View Post
If the KMT had held China, the whole country would be a lot smaller (no Tibet or Xinjiang), no nukes and a Brazilian style economy writ large. Or something like an India.
Why do you say this. Tibet and Xinjiang were a part of the Manchu Dynasty for a long time. I would think the next leader will want to be just as big if not bigger than the previous.
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Old 10-30-2015, 08:34 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
What makes you think that KMT would produce a stable, decent government? The party has always been a piece of **** ever since its establishment back the early 1900s. There was corruption on top of corruption, assassination on top of assassination, the party members cared nothing but themselves, just like they are today.

China would be as ****ed-up as it was under Mao had KMT won the civil war. The economy would be as laughable and the human rights record would be just as bad, if not worse(see the White Terror era in Taiwan, it was pathetic).

The only possible difference would be that KMT probably wouldn't be such a see-you-next-Tuesday to its neighbors like China is nowadays. That's about it. Both parties are equally cruel to the Chinese population and could not care less about their well-beings.
I would say Mao was much worse to the chinese people. He dragged them back to the stone age with them cultural revolutions. Then he made some bad policies that caused mass starvations.

KMT and Chiang were more for modernization and westernization.
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Old 10-30-2015, 10:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
I would say Mao was much worse to the chinese people. He dragged them back to the stone age with them cultural revolutions. Then he made some bad policies that caused mass starvations.
One of my teachers in Taiwan introduced us this video in the class:

https://youtu.be/LjRZIW_hRlM
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Taipei
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Originally Posted by NJ Brazen_3133 View Post
I would say Mao was much worse to the chinese people. He dragged them back to the stone age with them cultural revolutions. Then he made some bad policies that caused mass starvations.

KMT and Chiang were more for modernization and westernization.
Mao was indeed abhorrent, but CKS was not much better either. KMT performed one of the deadliest massacres in human history in Taiwan(228 incident and then the White Terror era), hundreds of thousands of Taiwanese were killed under his and his son's administration. Granted, they didn't start a cultural revolution or retarded **** a la Great Leap Forward, but their oppression against Taiwanese population was still one of the most notorious in the post-WWII era.

To assume that China would be 'stable and decent' because Taiwan nowadays is a stable and decent democracy is an inaccurate premise. Taiwan evolved into what it is today because of various reasons: Japanese colonial history, American support and pressure, and of course, Taiwanese people ourselves, while China has none of those. The two countries simply have walked through completely different historical paths.
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Old 10-31-2015, 01:58 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Mao was indeed abhorrent, but CKS was not much better either. KMT performed one of the deadliest massacres in human history in Taiwan(228 incident and then the White Terror era), hundreds of thousands of Taiwanese were killed under his and his son's administration. Granted, they didn't start a cultural revolution or retarded **** a la Great Leap Forward, but their oppression against Taiwanese population was still one of the most notorious in the post-WWII era.

To assume that China would be 'stable and decent' because Taiwan nowadays is a stable and decent democracy is an inaccurate premise. Taiwan evolved into what it is today because of various reasons: Japanese colonial history, American support and pressure, and of course, Taiwanese people ourselves, while China has none of those. The two countries simply have walked through completely different historical paths.

Taiwan is of course a much smaller place, easier to manage, etc. The only reason Taiwan is even a "country" is because Americans wanted it as a buffer.

Last edited by littlemissrock; 10-31-2015 at 02:46 AM..
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Old 10-31-2015, 11:29 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
Mao was indeed abhorrent, but CKS was not much better either. KMT performed one of the deadliest massacres in human history in Taiwan(228 incident and then the White Terror era), hundreds of thousands of Taiwanese were killed under his and his son's administration. Granted, they didn't start a cultural revolution or retarded **** a la Great Leap Forward, but their oppression against Taiwanese population was still one of the most notorious in the post-WWII era.

To assume that China would be 'stable and decent' because Taiwan nowadays is a stable and decent democracy is an inaccurate premise. Taiwan evolved into what it is today because of various reasons: Japanese colonial history, American support and pressure, and of course, Taiwanese people ourselves, while China has none of those. The two countries simply have walked through completely different historical paths.
Neither the 228 incident or the White terror would have been an issue if Chiang had control of all of china or half of it.

He would not have had the same issues if he was not confined to a small island. Chiang would have had more to work with, and would not have been too desperate if he had at least won half of all China Proper.

In other words Chiang would have been more powerful, and not feel that badly threatened by the Communist invasion. There would have been no need to take such measures, and if he did, it would just be a drop in the bucket.

But I guess that all stems back to how Chiang conducted the Nationalist Public Relations campaign during and before the Chinese Civil War. Apparently the Communists received overwhelming support from the population by the time the Second Sino Japanese War ended, and even that is an understatement. The Soviets also grabbed up the left overs from the Kwantung army for the Communists.

I wonder what would have happened if the Americans armed Chiang better.
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Old 10-31-2015, 11:32 AM
 
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Originally Posted by littlemissrock View Post
Taiwan is of course a much smaller place, easier to manage, etc. The only reason Taiwan is even a "country" is because Americans wanted it as a buffer.
Did the Americans ever have a military presence on Taiwan like we do in Korean, Japan, and had on the Phillipines? I wonder why we dont have installations on the Phillipines anymore?
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