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Old 11-10-2015, 06:58 AM
 
8 posts, read 5,285 times
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Taiwan became richer earlier than South Korea.

Taiwan is old rich, South Korea is just new rich.

With smaller population, Taiwan has more USD millionaires than South Korea.

But Taiwan is decling recently while South Korea is rising.
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Old 11-10-2015, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Taipei
6,823 posts, read 5,188,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunamiclc View Post
Taiwan became richer earlier than South Korea.

Taiwan is old rich, South Korea is just new rich.

With smaller population, Taiwan has more USD millionaires than South Korea.

But Taiwan is decling recently while South Korea is rising.
I agree with this, though I wouldn't call Taiwan 'old rich'...that sounds more like Japan. But yeah Taiwan got rich a little bit earlier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...income_economy
Taiwan was included in World Bank high-income economies since such category was established in 1987, while Korea joined much later, precisely in 1995, then got kicked out after 1997 as it was struck very, very badly by the Asian financial crisis, then brought back in 2001.

This probably has resulted in the difference on wealth and assets of both countries.


Taiwan has almost the same amount of external assets as Korea, despite having only half of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...xternal_assets

And the financial assets per capita of Taiwan is approximately the same as Japan and Singapore, way ahead of South Korea.
https://www.allianz.com/v_1443702256...WR2015_ENG.pdf (page 105-107)

Honestly I'm also quite dubious towards these reports. Maybe they are complete bull**** and Taiwan is actually just as ****-poor as it seems. Who knows.

That being said, Korea is definitely way more competitive on global stage, their income is miles better than that of Taiwan it's not even funny. Seoul is also a far more modern and a far, far, far, far more relevant city than Taipei is, and I also agree that Korea is more developed than Taiwan - at least in terms of economy and overall infrastructure.
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Old 11-10-2015, 02:26 PM
 
277 posts, read 208,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I agree with this, though I wouldn't call Taiwan 'old rich'...that sounds more like Japan. But yeah Taiwan got rich a little bit earlier.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_...income_economy
Taiwan was included in World Bank high-income economies since such category was established in 1987, while Korea joined much later, precisely in 1995, then got kicked out after 1997 as it was struck very, very badly by the Asian financial crisis, then brought back in 2001.

This probably has resulted in the difference on wealth and assets of both countries.


Taiwan has almost the same amount of external assets as Korea, despite having only half of the population.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...xternal_assets

And the financial assets per capita of Taiwan is approximately the same as Japan and Singapore, way ahead of South Korea.
https://www.allianz.com/v_1443702256...WR2015_ENG.pdf (page 105-107)

Honestly I'm also quite dubious towards these reports. Maybe they are complete bull**** and Taiwan is actually just as ****-poor as it seems. Who knows.

That being said, Korea is definitely way more competitive on global stage, their income is miles better than that of Taiwan it's not even funny. Seoul is also a far more modern and a far, far, far, far more relevant city than Taipei is, and I also agree that Korea is more developed than Taiwan - at least in terms of economy and overall infrastructure.
Those reports can be very misleading, the way I look at it, I'm not sure why but Taipei looks very backward and grubby, much less glitz and glamour of Seoul!

There are motorbikes all over the street and even looks like there are fewer cars even Ho Chi Minh City these days...

I just cant buy into how "rich" Taiwan is according to those reports...the city seriously looks very 2nd or even 3rd tier in Asia...

Either the Taiwanese themselves and their government stash their cash away and do not spend or the Koreans have a lot of debt to have that shexy skyline and downtown area...else I can't explain the discrepancy on paper vs reality...
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:05 PM
 
Location: Taipei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
Either the Taiwanese themselves and their government stash their cash away and do not spend or the Koreans have a lot of debt to have that shexy skyline and downtown area...else I can't explain the discrepancy on paper vs reality...
I guess it just means that Korea is at least trying, while Taiwan is not.
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Old 11-10-2015, 05:35 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
451 posts, read 1,086,987 times
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I know this might be of a different topic and I am not taking anything away from South Korea’s phenomenal growth over the last 20 years (and it bounced back from the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis), however, somehow I think the growth rate in South Korea also comes with a price. South Korea has a fairly high suicide rate. I am not trying to bash South Korea- my wife is of Korean background, as well as my sister in law. One of my Korean friends probably characterize South Korea best- "A developed economy, but the social structure is still developing." I am Taiwanese-American. I also agree just about most things written about Taiwan- Taiwan had the potential to reach levels close to South Korea, except for some geopolitical barriers and maybe some other factors such as some incompetence and corruption. South Korea is now more developed than Taiwan has a much larger global presence than Taiwan.
See articles about South Korea’s suicide rate:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/op...cide.html?_r=0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea
South Korea still has top OECD suicide rate
South Korea: Suicide Nation - Al Jazeera English
World suicide rates by country

I think much of it has to do with long working hours-among the highest in the developed world (which is how South Korea developed so quickly) but also a pressure cooker culture:

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/23/asia/s...-work-culture/

https://agenda.weforum.org/2015/07/w...longest-hours/

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Asia-...ing-long-hours

Last edited by twnxn; 11-10-2015 at 05:49 PM..
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Old 11-10-2015, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,823 posts, read 5,188,765 times
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^Well Taiwan can hardly point fingers on Korea. Taiwan's working hours are about as long as Korea's.

There are indeed things which are much better in Taiwan than in Korea though: the toxic hierarchy, ridiculous societal pressure, even worse homophobia, even worse chauvinism and gender inequality, even worse press freedom, jaw-dropping level of xenophobia and racism, government censorship, and the ever-invincible chaebols. But of course, tourists never have to experience any of these.

That is not to say Taiwan doesn't have any of those problems mentioned above. Quite the contrary, to be quite honest.

Last edited by Greysholic; 11-10-2015 at 06:30 PM..
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Old 11-10-2015, 06:57 PM
 
277 posts, read 208,572 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twnxn View Post
I know this might be of a different topic and I am not taking anything away from South Korea’s phenomenal growth over the last 20 years (and it bounced back from the 1997 Asian Financial Crisis), however, somehow I think the growth rate in South Korea also comes with a price. South Korea has a fairly high suicide rate. I am not trying to bash South Korea- my wife is of Korean background, as well as my sister in law. One of my Korean friends probably characterize South Korea best- "A developed economy, but the social structure is still developing." I am Taiwanese-American. I also agree just about most things written about Taiwan- Taiwan had the potential to reach levels close to South Korea, except for some geopolitical barriers and maybe some other factors such as some incompetence and corruption. South Korea is now more developed than Taiwan has a much larger global presence than Taiwan.
See articles about South Korea’s suicide rate:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/03/op...cide.html?_r=0
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_South_Korea
South Korea still has top OECD suicide rate
South Korea: Suicide Nation - Al Jazeera English
World suicide rates by country

I think much of it has to do with long working hours-among the highest in the developed world (which is how South Korea developed so quickly) but also a pressure cooker culture:

South Korea's pressure-cooker work culture - CNN.com

https://agenda.weforum.org/2015/07/w...longest-hours/

'Nut rage' in S Korea spotlights culture of punishing long hours - CSMonitor.com
I'm not sure if Taiwan is hampered by geopolitics and or corruption - South Korea has a crazy North and is just as corrupt as the Taiwanese...

Many of South Korea's successes today are clones of the Japanese - Samsung basically absorbed and developed technology from virtually Sony, Sharp, Toshiba etc. Hyundai off Mitsubishi and Samsung Motors off Nissan and Renault.

The Taiwanese were never interested to compete on a world stage and happy being OEM manufacturers but hasn't yet graduated to the next level (branding).

Hypothetically, I think that at best if Taiwan did play its cards right, would have only produced a conglomerate half the size of Samsung with lesser dominance and probably only would have had a chance at dominating electronics. It would probably be safe to say Taiwan never had the capability to build and develop a car industry...

Can the South Koreans now keep the fast growing Mainland Chinese companies at bay? South Korea will again need to catch up to the Japanese in advanced manufacturing for it to keep growing economically...
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Old 11-10-2015, 07:14 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,823 posts, read 5,188,765 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
I'm not sure if Taiwan is hampered by geopolitics and or corruption - South Korea has a crazy North and is just as corrupt as the Taiwanese...
As corrupt as South Korea might be, at least their politicians identify with Korea, the same can not be said about Taiwanese ones.

And geopolitics does play a certain part on Taiwan's dilemma, probably not a big one, but it's still an obstacle. Korea is not a country with very limited recognition, it has nothing holding it back in terms of international cooperation and negotiations, while Taiwan has to deal with all the BS on a daily basis. I don't think it's the key reason though, 90% of Taiwan's problems are due to our own culture, not China - as annoying and bullying as they are.

Quote:
Hypothetically, I think that at best if Taiwan did play its cards right, would have only produced a conglomerate half the size of Samsung with lesser dominance and probably only would have had a chance at dominating electronics. It would probably be safe to say Taiwan never had the capability to build and develop a car industry...
Like I said, a Samsung-like chaebol is the last thing Taiwan needs. Taiwanese business and political scene are already unbearable, freedom of press is already frail, a chaebol that makes up 20% of the GDP would only make everything ten times worse.
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Old 11-10-2015, 08:24 PM
 
Location: Orange County, CA, USA
451 posts, read 1,086,987 times
Reputation: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by willister View Post
I'm not sure if Taiwan is hampered by geopolitics and or corruption - South Korea has a crazy North and is just as corrupt as the Taiwanese...

Many of South Korea's successes today are clones of the Japanese - Samsung basically absorbed and developed technology from virtually Sony, Sharp, Toshiba etc. Hyundai off Mitsubishi and Samsung Motors off Nissan and Renault.

The Taiwanese were never interested to compete on a world stage and happy being OEM manufacturers but hasn't yet graduated to the next level (branding).

Hypothetically, I think that at best if Taiwan did play its cards right, would have only produced a conglomerate half the size of Samsung with lesser dominance and probably only would have had a chance at dominating electronics. It would probably be safe to say Taiwan never had the capability to build and develop a car industry...

Can the South Koreans now keep the fast growing Mainland Chinese companies at bay? South Korea will again need to catch up to the Japanese in advanced manufacturing for it to keep growing economically...
I'm not sure if it was necessarily that Taiwan was not interested in trying to compete on the world stage. Right now Taiwan knows its limits. But, Taiwan was not set up like South Korea with the Chaebol or Japan with the Zaibatsu. Taiwan was set up with smaller companies-ironically Taiwan wanted to become more like Japan or the West. I agree that Taiwan remaining OEM manufacturers made Taiwan a lot less visible in the world stage and economy. My uncle in Taiwan worked many years for Shihlin Electric as an electrical engineer and later in an executive position-"which manufactures electrical and power transformers, switchgear, automation, controls and automotive electrical devices. The technology for the manufacturing originally involved technology transfers from Mitsubishi Electric (Japan) and France Transfo, a Schneider Electric Company (France)." See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shihlin_Electric I guess they did not do what Samsung did with Sony, Sharp and Toshiba or Hyundai do off Mitsubishi.

Taiwan's threat/challenge is China which is and is not comparable to North Korea's threat to South Korea. North Korea's threat to South Korea is largely military/nuclear, while China's threat is economically, militarily and geopolitics (China plays a much larger role in the world stage than North Korea)- China is much larger than Taiwan while North Korea is actually smaller than South Korea.

I still believe Taiwan had the potential to achieve more than it had over the past 20 years.
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Old 11-11-2015, 07:04 AM
 
Location: Singapore
653 posts, read 545,351 times
Reputation: 294
Asian meaning whole of Asia and not just APEC region? What about Dubai, Abu Dhabi and Qatar?
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