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Singapore is very different from Taiwan. It has more centralized planning and the government through the HDB is pretty much the one responsible for most of the residential buildings since the 1960s.
I suspect that this phenomenon is because a lot of old buildings had very good locations and although very shabby, were still in good enough condition to be renovated inside. When real estate prices started to grow at a very fast pace, probably starting in the 1980s, properties in these buildings were among the most desirable even with their shabby appearance. With the less car-oriented culture in Asia and the desire for walkability, a small shabby apartment that has public transportation and a convenience store just right outside the doorstep is probably better than a McMansion in the middle of nowhere, with no public transportation going there and not even a small store anywhere.
Hong Kong is more similar to Taiwan in this aspect than Singapore. Lots of residential buildings in Hong Kong are just fugly. Some might make some effort to improve the appearance of their building from the front or from certain views, but stay in a high-rise hotel in Taipei or Hong Kong and if you happen to have the back view of a residential building, the views can be hideous! People are literally airing out their dirty laundry there at the back!
It is true Japan and South Korea are no match for America but their influence is outsize compare to their sizes. Given how strong America is, anything is going to look small in comparison.
Japan is the 3rd largest economy and the 10th most populous country in the world. They don't outsize anything. Korean wave is very recent, its longevity will remain to be seen.
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Based on what I can gather, Chinese historic drama like Nirvana in Fire and The Advisors Alliance are popular in Taiwan. From what I read on the Taiwanese forums and news articles, the general impression is that Chinese TV shows are getting better everyday because the Chinese are willing to invest while Taiwanese companies are more concerned with lowering cost.
Nirvana was semi-popular, but I'd never heard of The Advisors Alliance before you mentioned it.
And as popular as Nirvana was, its ratings and following were still quite limited. Like everywhere else, people are watching much less tv in Taiwan nowadays.
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Thanks to a large Chinese American community in Los Angeles Chinese music, video, movie, and, perhaps the one thing all races enjoy, Chinese food are abundant here.
That's simply the result of massive immigration from China. If you go to any place without any Chinese-speaking population, no one would be watching or listening any of those.
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From 1980s to 1990s Taiwanese music and videos were very popular among Chinese and South East Asians in America, just as they were famous in Asia at the same time.
That's called the lack of competition.
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Though different from first hand experience, reading is not a bad way to learn about foreign countries. While China is much like Taiwan regarding art classes, the materials I read about Japan and South Korea suggest both countries take art classes seriously, so while art classes get less time than primary ones the students are taught knowledge that allow them to pursue art careers or develop an aesthetic sense. Similarly, while art classes also get less time than primary ones in America and not as serious as Japan or South Korea, they are more serious with their subjects than Taiwan. Perhaps I was not clear before, when I referred to art as secondary discipline in Taiwan, I meant they are considered unimportant and unworthy to be treated seriously.
Yeah I still don't buy it.
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Again art has more to do with quality than quantity so size is not an excuse, especially when there was a Taiwan wave that made Taiwan the leader of Chinese culture soft power from 1980s to 1990s.
Lack of competition. China was extremely poor then. Plus the proliferation of internet has effectively ruled out any possibility of soft power projection for any small country. If you don't believe me, try name 10 Australian movies without googling.
Other than downtown Taipei the average city sidewalk in Taiwan is a nightmare to walk down. Strewn with dogs*hit, parked scooters blocking your path, or no sidewalk at all because some shop owner decided to extend his or her shop onto the sidewalk so you have to walk out into the street to get around it.
Singapore is very different from Taiwan. It has more centralized planning and the government through the HDB is pretty much the one responsible for most of the residential buildings since the 1960s.
I suspect that this phenomenon is because a lot of old buildings had very good locations and although very shabby, were still in good enough condition to be renovated inside. When real estate prices started to grow at a very fast pace, probably starting in the 1980s, properties in these buildings were among the most desirable even with their shabby appearance. With the less car-oriented culture in Asia and the desire for walkability, a small shabby apartment that has public transportation and a convenience store just right outside the doorstep is probably better than a McMansion in the middle of nowhere, with no public transportation going there and not even a small store anywhere.
Hong Kong is more similar to Taiwan in this aspect than Singapore. Lots of residential buildings in Hong Kong are just fugly. Some might make some effort to improve the appearance of their building from the front or from certain views, but stay in a high-rise hotel in Taipei or Hong Kong and if you happen to have the back view of a residential building, the views can be hideous! People are literally airing out their dirty laundry there at the back!
Good observations. Of course, Japan is clean partially because of culture, because Shintoism holds cleanliness in high regard. But I think another reason why Tokyo is cleaner than Taipei is because Tokyo was bombed to the ground in WW2 and Taipei was not. Tokyo received much more American aid post-war than Taipei did. So the great majority of buildings in Tokyo are post-war, built according to the highest building, urban planning, and sanitation standards America had at that time. Whereas there are many, many pre-war buildings in Taipei, and there was no massive American aid to tear down, master-plan, and modernize the whole city, so no one bothered.
Another reason is because Taipei has year-round humidity that multiplies mold all over the place, while Tokyo is humid during the summer but cools off dramatically the rest of the year. Then again, Singapore has year-round humidity but, judging by Google Street view, have no more mold on their buildings than Tokyo.
. . . there are many, many pre-war buildings in Taipei . . . .
That’s news to me. Other than some temples, the odd Japanese-era government building or the occasional abandoned looking “ghost” house nestled between high rises Taipei has done a notoriously bad job of preserving its architectural history.
Japan is the 3rd largest economy and the 10th most populous country in the world. They don't outsize anything. Korean wave is very recent, its longevity will remain to be seen.
Which leads to the question why a relatively small country (61st largest) is able to build an economy surpassed only by the fourth and the third largest countries. With efficient use of resource and an educated population, even a small country has a chance to outdo larger ones.
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
Nirvana was semi-popular, but I'd never heard of The Advisors Alliance before you mentioned it.
And as popular as Nirvana was, its ratings and following were still quite limited. Like everywhere else, people are watching much less tv in Taiwan nowadays.
That could be the reason. Since it is easy to watch Chinese shows and movies on the Internet, the viewership might be larger than the rating suggested.
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
That's simply the result of massive immigration from China. If you go to any place without any Chinese-speaking population, no one would be watching or listening any of those.
It is true Chinese music and videos in America are largely consumed by Chinese, but there are signs that they are very slowly moving out of Chinese enclave. For example in July LA Times had short reviews on two Chinese movies. This might not look like much but to have a major English news outlet reviewing Chinese movies showed signs that Americans are slowly opening to Chinese entertainment. Also, when the Taiwanese drama The Fierce Wife was aired on Hispanic channel, it gained a following and was reported by LA Times.
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
That's called the lack of competition.
True, but I doubt people would watch bad shows or listen to awful music because there was no competition.
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
Yeah I still don't buy it.
We just have to agree to disagree then. You can say I am biased because of my experience with Taiwanese education, but I don't believe a country can develop art and culture with an education system that treats art like dirt.
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Originally Posted by Greysholic
Lack of competition. China was extremely poor then. Plus the proliferation of internet has effectively ruled out any possibility of soft power projection for any small country. If you don't believe me, try name 10 Australian movies without googling.
Which means Taiwan had a monopoly, a good head start, and the ability to set market trend when China was starting to develop. Also the Internet is open to all so even a small country can use it to project soft power as long as the country has produced products worthy of attention. I doubt Japan would be able to build an international anime empire simply by flooding the Internet with trash. In the case of Australia, you have certainly set a high bar and I can only think of Mad Max 1, Mad Max 2, the newest Mad Max, and Crocodile Dundee.
That’s news to me. Other than some temples, the odd Japanese-era government building or the occasional abandoned looking “ghost” house nestled between high rises Taipei has done a notoriously bad job of preserving its architectural history.
Which reminds me of a joke circulated on Taiwanese forum about historic building. The joke goes that when a building is about to be declared historic, it will mysteriously burn down or be accidentally demolished and then replaced an expensive apartment.
Which leads to the question why a relatively small country (61st largest) is able to build an economy surpassed only by the fourth and the third largest countries. With efficient use of resource and an educated population, even a small country has a chance to outdo larger ones.
By area. Japan is the 10th most populous country in the world, and it's after decades of population decline. They used to be 6th. You keep mixing up area, economy size, and population. Japan has been a great power for over a century. It does not belong to this conversation.
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That could be the reason. Since it is easy to watch Chinese shows and movies on the Internet, the viewership might be larger than the rating suggested.
Maybe, but they still had a limited following at best. The fanbase wasn't bad for a Chinese tv show, but it wasn't anything substantial either.
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It is true Chinese music and videos in America are largely consumed by Chinese, but there are signs that they are very slowly moving out of Chinese enclave. For example in July LA Times had short reviews on two Chinese movies. This might not look like much but to have a major English news outlet reviewing Chinese movies showed signs that Americans are slowly opening to Chinese entertainment. Also, when the Taiwanese drama The Fierce Wife was aired on Hispanic channel, it gained a following and was reported by LA Times.
It's easy to buy publicities.
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True, but I doubt people would watch bad shows or listen to awful music because there was no competition.
"Haven't aged well" is probably a better expression. People back then might have liked those, but they are just really bad.
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Which means Taiwan had a monopoly, a good head start, and the ability to set market trend when China was starting to develop. Also the Internet is open to all so even a small country can use it to project soft power as long as the country has produced products worthy of attention.
The internet is so open that people only follow things that are trendy on social media. If internet helps make indies blossom, we wouldn't have only superhero movies to watch in theatres.
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In the case of Australia, you have certainly set a high bar and I can only think of Mad Max 1, Mad Max 2, the newest Mad Max, and Crocodile Dundee.
I took Australia's example because its population size is similar to Taiwan's, and you've proved my point by naming two. Even with the most advantageous language (English) and enormous wealth, Australia still has very little cultural export beyond Mad Max. Why? Because the internal market is tiny, the box office and tv commercial revenue would be too small to cover the production budget. The risk of failure is too great. Same goes for Canada. To say less about even smaller countries like the Netherlands.
They do export a lot of their artistic talent to Hollywood though.
Which reminds me of a joke circulated on Taiwanese forum about historic building. The joke goes that when a building is about to be declared historic, it will mysteriously burn down or be accidentally demolished and then replaced an expensive apartment.
And the fine for demolishing a building before it can be designated for historic preservation is peanuts.
Bottom line is there’s a lack of civic-mindedness in Chinese culture, especially if it costs money, that leads to drab public spaces and life threatening near anarchy in traffic.
Last edited by mathlete; 08-02-2018 at 01:03 AM..
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