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Old 01-06-2016, 05:00 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,648,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
^Really? They hold hands and rub each other's laps? My impression of Chinese men is that they are macho as **** and expect all women to save themselves before marriage (pathetic sexism). Many of them also have like zillions of mistresses and **** and that's like a symbol of being a successful man.

They also get married frightfully early under family pressure or whatnot, like 25 or something, which is quite unbelievable.

And I don't see how China can be considered a "front runner" in terms of LGBT rights in Asia. There's Israel, which is very very gay-friendly; then there's Thailand and the Philippines, also pretty gay friendly even though legalisation is nowhere near realisation; then there's Nepal, which is gonna pass the bill soon; at worst there's Taiwan, where the population is laughably moralistic and provincial and hypocritical, but at least there's continual support from the public and gay marriage is actually part of the election campaign; or Japan, where homosexuality is very very popular in a way thanks to all the manga and anime and gay porn. China has recently just ruled out that homosexuality is not a mental illness, the first Asian country to legalise gay marriage? Well I guess pennyone might buy that, or maybe your definition of "close to legalisation" means decades.
Well, I sure didn't say they were first in Asia, but relative to just Asia and not to Europe or the Americas, yes they are front runners. Many countries in the region are not friendly to homosexuals at all, but yes there are exceptions. Israel is likely first followed by some SE Asian countries.

My main point was how far China has come in accepting homosexuals. Back in the pre-80's they were one of the most repressive governments towards homosexuals. Homosexual Chinese were running to other countries for asylum. Shanghai and a few other major cities in China even have gay pride parades today. What a drastic transition. China more then just tolerates homosexuals now, government news reporters even defend homosexuals on public national television. As I mentioned before, bills to legalize homosexuality have been introduced 3-4 years in a row.
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Old 01-06-2016, 05:06 PM
 
1,424 posts, read 737,448 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Well, I sure didn't say they were first in Asia, but relative to just Asia and not to Europe or the Americas, yes they are front runners. Many countries in the region are not friendly to homosexuals at all, but yes there are exceptions. Israel is likely first followed by some SE Asian countries.

My main point was how far China has come in accepting homosexuals. Back in the pre-80's they were one of the most repressive governments towards homosexuals. Homosexual Chinese were running to other countries for asylum. Shanghai and a few other major cities in China even have gay pride parades today. What a drastic transition. China more then just tolerates homosexuals now, government news reporters even defend homosexuals on public national television. As I mentioned before, bills to legalize homosexuality have been introduced 3-4 years in a row.
China was very socially conservative before the 1980s, but that does not mean homosexuals were persecuted in particular.
Many people at that time did not even know homosexuals exist, or they thought it was just a lifestyle caused by some mental disease.

It is not accurate to say "they were one of the most repressive governments" in terms of homosexuality. The truth is, it was a "non-issue" back then. No one even talked about it. Even today this issue is not as commonly discussed as in western media. In the US some gay news pops up every day, but in many other countries people do not talk about it.
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Old 01-06-2016, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Taipei
6,777 posts, read 5,136,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
Well, I sure didn't say they were first in Asia, but relative to just Asia and not to Europe or the Americas, yes they are front runners. Many countries in the region are not friendly to homosexuals at all, but yes there are exceptions. Israel is likely first followed by some SE Asian countries.

My main point was how far China has come in accepting homosexuals. Back in the pre-80's they were one of the most repressive governments towards homosexuals. Homosexual Chinese were running to other countries for asylum. Shanghai and a few other major cities in China even have gay pride parades today. What a drastic transition. China more then just tolerates homosexuals now, government news reporters even defend homosexuals on public national television. As I mentioned before, bills to legalize homosexuality have been introduced 3-4 years in a row.
I feel like the same could be said about many other countries and China is hardly unique in this regard. Gay marriage has only gained significant success since the 2000s, then further blossomed in the 2010s, the whole trend is a very new one. Yeah there were hippies and stuff before then but still, it was a taboo in most countries until fairly recently, and in China it's still very much considered a disease. Idk if you are aware of this but there are a crapload of clinics in China that claim that they can "cure" homosexuality, very Edwardian.
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Old 01-06-2016, 05:26 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,648,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I feel like the same could be said about many other countries and China is hardly unique in this regard. Gay marriage has only gained significant success since the 2000s, then further blossomed in the 2010s, the whole trend is a very new one. Yeah there were hippies and stuff before then but still, it was a taboo in most countries until fairly recently, and in China it's still very much considered a disease. Idk if you are aware of this but there are a crapload of clinics in China that claim that they can "cure" homosexuality, very Edwardian.
Yeah, I agree with you. The US has those same type of clinics all over as well. I believe California may have recently banned them, but I bet they exist in every state where it's legal to do so.

The same can be said globally, in most Western countries gay marriage has just recently become popular enough to be legalized, and it's not legal in every Western country. Even here in the US there are tons of opposition and legal battles going on over gay marriage.
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Old 01-06-2016, 06:27 PM
 
4,665 posts, read 2,648,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
China was very socially conservative before the 1980s, but that does not mean homosexuals were persecuted in particular.
Many people at that time did not even know homosexuals exist, or they thought it was just a lifestyle caused by some mental disease.

It is not accurate to say "they were one of the most repressive governments" in terms of homosexuality. The truth is, it was a "non-issue" back then. No one even talked about it. Even today this issue is not as commonly discussed as in western media. In the US some gay news pops up every day, but in many other countries people do not talk about it.
This quote is directly from a Chinese website.
"During the cultural revolution (1966 - 76), homosexuals faced their worst period of persecution in Chinese history. The government considered homosexuality to be a social disgrace or a form of mental illness.

The police regularly rounded up gays and lesbians. Since there was no law against homosexuality, gays and lesbians were charged with hooliganism or disturbing public order. Since that time homosexuality has remained in closet."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_319807.htm
(this is generally considered a state-run news site)

For example in the 1600's Fujian province legalized gay marriage because of it's wide cultural acceptance in the province. Though in 1740 the Qing Dynasty made the first decree in Chinese history that made homosexuality illegal, mostly because of the rise of influence of Confucianism. (This is almost mentioned in that link)
When they say homosexuals were charged with "hooliganism" that is the law that was undone in 1997, but the Chinese government had for the most part already stopped implementing it on the homosexual community since the late 80's and early 90's.

My father-in-law grew up during the cultural revolution and was sent to a re-education camp, there were all sorts of "undesirables" there; religious, educated, homosexual, capitalist, nationalist, etc. I'd hate to know what you think is repressive if that isn't. Even today my father-in-law will wake up in the middle of the night screaming, but he refuses to discuss what happened then.

A couple interesting articles on being Chinese and gay.
Parents of LGBT People in China Are Helping Spread Acceptance | Out Magazine
After Coming Out, He Was Treated Like An Outcast By His Parents But Then Something Amazing Happened
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Old 01-06-2016, 10:42 PM
 
919 posts, read 604,536 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by botticelli View Post
Jin xing is not gay. She is transsexuals.
We should know they are completely different.

We always say LGBT. In fact gays have very little in common with transsexuals. Completely different people.
My bad, I didn't know that.

LGBT
LGBT or GLBT is an initialism that stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender. In use since the 1990s, the term is an adaptation of the initialism LGB, which was used to replace the term gay in reference to the LGBT community beginning in the mid-to-late 1980s.
Why are they categorized as LGBT if they are completely different?
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:03 AM
 
1,424 posts, read 737,448 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattks View Post
This quote is directly from a Chinese website.
"During the cultural revolution (1966 - 76), homosexuals faced their worst period of persecution in Chinese history. The government considered homosexuality to be a social disgrace or a form of mental illness.

The police regularly rounded up gays and lesbians. Since there was no law against homosexuality, gays and lesbians were charged with hooliganism or disturbing public order. Since that time homosexuality has remained in closet."

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english...ent_319807.htm
(this is generally considered a state-run news site)

For example in the 1600's Fujian province legalized gay marriage because of it's wide cultural acceptance in the province. Though in 1740 the Qing Dynasty made the first decree in Chinese history that made homosexuality illegal, mostly because of the rise of influence of Confucianism. (This is almost mentioned in that link)
When they say homosexuals were charged with "hooliganism" that is the law that was undone in 1997, but the Chinese government had for the most part already stopped implementing it on the homosexual community since the late 80's and early 90's.

My father-in-law grew up during the cultural revolution and was sent to a re-education camp, there were all sorts of "undesirables" there; religious, educated, homosexual, capitalist, nationalist, etc. I'd hate to know what you think is repressive if that isn't. Even today my father-in-law will wake up in the middle of the night screaming, but he refuses to discuss what happened then.

A couple interesting articles on being Chinese and gay.
Parents of LGBT People in China Are Helping Spread Acceptance | Out Magazine
After Coming Out, He Was Treated Like An Outcast By His Parents But Then Something Amazing Happened
Do not always trust Wikipedia or some articles written by activists. They tend to pick one or two events and generalize it. Those selected truths give you a wrong picture.
I can tell you that homosexuality was almost never a topic in my family, for example. People were simply not interested in it in old days.

In Qing dynasty, few if any men were punished for having sex with men. In fact, a lot of rich men like to play with Peking opera actors (all men at that time), and the most famous classic novel in China "dream of the red chamber" describes homosexuality many times.

I never heard any gay was put in reeducation camps either. If it happened, most likely it was because they were caught in public places. All "criminals" were sent to the camps at that time.
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Old 01-07-2016, 01:07 AM
 
1,424 posts, read 737,448 times
Reputation: 508
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greysholic View Post
I feel like the same could be said about many other countries and China is hardly unique in this regard. Gay marriage has only gained significant success since the 2000s, then further blossomed in the 2010s, the whole trend is a very new one. Yeah there were hippies and stuff before then but still, it was a taboo in most countries until fairly recently, and in China it's still very much considered a disease. Idk if you are aware of this but there are a crapload of clinics in China that claim that they can "cure" homosexuality, very Edwardian.
I have never heard of any clinics like that. They must be underground if there are some.
So the bottom line is such clinics are far from common.
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Old 01-07-2016, 02:23 AM
 
919 posts, read 604,536 times
Reputation: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
Do not always trust Wikipedia or some articles written by activists. They tend to pick one or two events and generalize it. Those selected truths give you a wrong picture.
Seems you're correct:

同性恋
中国的传统文化并不反对同性恋,在古代甚至比西方更为宽容,同性恋与婚育也没有矛盾。
and
基督教得势以后,开始残酷迫害同性恋者,而他们却对教会内的恋童行为不管不问乃至包庇纵容
It was Christianity that persecuted gays, not China.

BTW
Quote:
Originally Posted by yueng-ling View Post
I can tell you that homosexuality was almost never a topic in my family, for example. People were simply not interested in it in old days.
Would you imagine what had happened if you were gay?
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Old 01-07-2016, 04:05 AM
 
4,710 posts, read 3,626,130 times
Reputation: 7406
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yanagisawa View Post
Seems you're correct:

同性恋
中国的传统文化并不反对同性恋,在古代甚至比西方更为宽容,同性恋与婚育也没有矛盾。
and
基督教得势以后,开始残酷迫害同性恋者,而他们却对教会内的恋童行为不管不问乃至包庇纵容
It was Christianity that persecuted gays, not China.

BTW


Would you imagine what had happened if you were gay?
It's definitely true that Christianity was and continues to be the far bigger oppressor of homosexuality than China or Chinese culture. It's funny that today, given how China bashing is so in vogue, people simply blame China. The reality is that no one can compare to the Catholic Church and other Christian outfits (Lutherans Calvinists etc etc whatever) in their attack on gays.
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