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Old 01-11-2016, 11:04 PM
 
2,751 posts, read 920,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
It doesn't matter where it came from, the fact is "me love you long time" is often used in a disrespectful and condescending matter from white people. Doesn't matter if it's from a song or a movie, it's origin is traced to this exact scene. Don't hush hush or belittle him, because it's a very legitimate issue. As if Long Duk Dong wasn't bad enough. Why is Hollywood so scared of Asian men is the question
I love my girl long time too
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:12 PM
 
2,751 posts, read 920,345 times
Reputation: 1039
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow View Post
Including that ridiculous racist scene in that movie is one reason I have a burning hatred for Stanley Kubrick and everyone else involved in that film.

Just erasing that one awful movie from history would actually result in a (small) measurable improvement in the lives of Asian Americans who would never have to endure that "joke" repeated ad nauseum. I don't even have to watch the clip to know what scene that is.
http://youtu.be/5NP8y63Ms4o
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Old 01-11-2016, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by theunbrainwashed View Post
Yeah seriously. Every time I hear from Westerners that Asian girls only like nerdy, skinny guys, I can't help but think it's a coping mechanism
It is. Lots of nerdy Western guys who feel maligned by their home society fall into the trap of believing that Asian cultures are drastically more socially advanced and view “nerdiness” as the paragon of male virtue. A lot of this is fueled by the proliferation of anime and manga that depicts nerdy guys having to fend off sexy girls who constantly want to bang them; most of these poor dorks don't realize that often, these comics are either geared towards guys like and thus depict situations that are palatable to guys with poor social skills... Like, a 2 meter tall, busty, leggy bikini model taking the initiative and throwing herself at an awkward nerd who just wants to study. Or, they are simply satirical from the get go, but are translated into something totally different that appeals to English speaking nerds.

On the flip side, some Asian American guys say this frequently enough - I believe I've read it here on this board, actually. "Asian women care less about looks, and more about how educated and successful you are," etc. It is also probably a coping mechanism, but it is seen as confirmation by these nerdy western guys all the same. Inasmuch as I own an expat bar in Asia and used to train teachers, I see a steady influx of nerdy guys who think they're going to be fending off women with a pole - white guys who think they're pimpdaddy rockstars, black guys who think they're afro samurais, Asian American guys who think they are going to be welcomed back to their ancestral culture with a ticker tape parade of young women, etc - who end up getting a big "whomp whomp" as all the hot local girls go for hot local guys, or other, cooler expats.

Just like how women who want to understand what appeals to men make the mistake of referring to fashion magazines written by women and gay men rather than looking at porn or girlie mags that are made by straight men, for straight men, these guys should look at media that is actually geared towards Asian women. What do you see there? Nerdy guys with no muscles who love to study and are charmingly socially awkward? Nope... Cool guys with cool hair and lean muscle who are witty and funny and manly.
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Old 01-12-2016, 02:20 AM
 
161 posts, read 121,458 times
Reputation: 325
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
It is. Lots of nerdy Western guys who feel maligned by their home society fall into the trap of believing that Asian cultures are drastically more socially advanced and view “nerdiness” as the paragon of male virtue. A lot of this is fueled by the proliferation of anime and manga that depicts nerdy guys having to fend off sexy girls who constantly want to bang them; most of these poor dorks don't realize that often, these comics are either geared towards guys like and thus depict situations that are palatable to guys with poor social skills... Like, a 2 meter tall, busty, leggy bikini model taking the initiative and throwing herself at an awkward nerd who just wants to study. Or, they are simply satirical from the get go, but are translated into something totally different that appeals to English speaking nerds.

On the flip side, some Asian American guys say this frequently enough - I believe I've read it here on this board, actually. "Asian women care less about looks, and more about how educated and successful you are," etc. It is also probably a coping mechanism, but it is seen as confirmation by these nerdy western guys all the same. Inasmuch as I own an expat bar in Asia and used to train teachers, I see a steady influx of nerdy guys who think they're going to be fending off women with a pole - white guys who think they're pimpdaddy rockstars, black guys who think they're afro samurais, Asian American guys who think they are going to be welcomed back to their ancestral culture with a ticker tape parade of young women, etc - who end up getting a big "whomp whomp" as all the hot local girls go for hot local guys, or other, cooler expats.

Just like how women who want to understand what appeals to men make the mistake of referring to fashion magazines written by women and gay men rather than looking at porn or girlie mags that are made by straight men, for straight men, these guys should look at media that is actually geared towards Asian women. What do you see there? Nerdy guys with no muscles who love to study and are charmingly socially awkward? Nope... Cool guys with cool hair and lean muscle who are witty and funny and manly.
You mean nerdy western guys like those 50+ year old guys who still play computer games?

To be serious though, I do find many examples of success between western men and Asian women abroad irrespective of how they're presented. As for whether or not they'd do any worse or better with western women is another question. A big advantage in their favour is that they tend to be reasonably well off compared to some of the indigenous low lives back home.

Last edited by Points of Convergence; 01-12-2016 at 03:48 AM..
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Old 01-12-2016, 10:29 AM
 
2,751 posts, read 920,345 times
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Intelligent Asian chicks usually don't want to be hooked up with a guy who rather hang out with his buddies at the gas station. I've had tons of male friends who would come to the gas station where we were all working on our cars and just come to complain about their wife's. They'd come to the station just to get away from their wife's. Interesting thing is most of their wife's put up with that behavior. But not one of any of their wife's were Asian. I've dated a hand full of Asian women and not one of them would put up with me if I chose to hang out at a gas station working on my car over spending time with her. Not one of them would except me wanting to just get away from her. When you're with an Asian chick the only behavior they except is when you do things together with them They'd hang out at the station while working on cars, that's not an issue. But just as long as you include her with what your doing. But it's give and take so if she hangs out with you at the station working on cars, you'll need to hang out with her at the mall shopping the next day/weekend.

So bottom line is, from my experiences, almost all Asian chicks require and expect you to do things together. Other races which I've also dated, most seem to want to have their own time away with their own friends and whatnot. This could be a deep rooted cultural trait as well, because in most Asian cultures, the woman marries and moves in with the husband's family. While in American culture, the woman marries and the husband and wife leave both sides of the family to go off on their own.
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Old 01-12-2016, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
Reputation: 11313
^ my wife (Chinese) is actually generally okay if I go out drinking with my bros, etc. She's actually more okay with me doing stuff with my friends - "being social" - than she is if I want to, say, go out and ride my bike for three hours, or sit down and play a computer game. If I am not hanging out with my friends, then I should be paying attention to her. I always attributed this more to her personality than I did to her nationality.

My ex fiance (American, not of Asian descent) couldn't stand it when I went out and worked on my car. That's why she's my ex, and I have a fully-built S2000 waiting in my parents' garage back in Boston
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Old 01-12-2016, 12:01 PM
 
Location: San Marcos, CA
674 posts, read 440,015 times
Reputation: 792
Quote:
Originally Posted by 415_s2k View Post
Did you ever stop to think that maybe that scene was based on the real-life experiences of people who were forced to go through a war - not just the American soldiers, but also the Vietnamese civilians who were caught in the middle? Taken out of context, or used as a belittling remark, it can be used as something racist. Taken in context, it's a cinematic representation of a very ugly reality. You may not like that, but it's the truth.

Maybe you would find the teenage girl sniper at the end who kills almost the entire unit to be more palatable.

Wishing that you could erase one film because one scene makes you feel uncomfortable, and stating that you have a "burning hatred" for everyone involved in the film is just childish. The whole film was an indictment against the US' actions towards the Vietnamese. Maybe you should just put on your man pants and watch it.


Sixteen Candles was an otherwise-forgettable, throwaway high school film that used a racist bit character for cheap yuks. Full Metal Jacket was a very poignant and heavily symbolic antiwar movie. Massive difference. It may not be a comfortable thing to watch, but that doesn't mean that it should be "removed from history." Adults who act like children deserved to be hushed.

Also, I have heard "me love you long time" and "me so horny" said by black people 10x more than white people, as have most of my Asian friends with whom I have gotten on the topic. Most white people in North America are utterly terrified of offending nonwhite people, but the black community is largely let off the hook on this matter ("black people can't be racist") so, there you go...

So, your defense is that the ugly stereotype that every Asian American has had to deal with is okay because it's true? That's your defense of that scene?

It doesn't help that you go on to favor anti-war sentiment (I don't like war, but I didn't ask for North Vietnam to invade -- being against involvement in the war isn't going to make something suddenly attractive to Vietnamese Americans who wouldn't even be here if it weren't for the invasion), and then you go on to say, "Well, black people are the real bad guys here."

Let's be honest; the real bad guys were the French. The world would probably be a better place if America and England had decided to let Germany keep France after World War II (okay, not really, but I'm not sure why France got to stay imperialist pigs after the war).

If most white people are really terrified of saying racist things, I'd never know, because I hear it all enough. Enough not to take seriously the opinions of white people who try to tell me otherwise, certainly.

I'm tired of the "South Park" defense. People say, "Oh, yeah, it's okay to say something horrifically racist, because I'm quoting some serious art." That doesn't make it okay to repeat. It doesn't even make it okay for the serious art to say it that way. (That scene from the Kubrick flick was bad whatever its intentions were.) It's certainly not okay to take the most disgustingly racist portrayal of anything in just about any movie ever made and repeat it, over and over and over again forever.


I know that "post-ironic" humor was a thing for a while. People would try to argue that it was okay to say racist things (even as a white person) because the racist statements were intended to satirize racists ("actual" racists, not the white people standing around using ethnic slurs, bad accents, and other stereotypes). This didn't work. Soon it became clear that people only wanted a license to say racist things.

People started quoting Eric Cartman because they wanted to be like him. People quoted Dave Chapelle and Chris Rock because they thought they could get away with it.

Sooner or later, white people need to learn that doing this stuff is not okay, even if they claim they're only acting racist in order to make a point. It's a worn-out point by now, and it's a point that's been used, often intentionally, to make non-white people miserable for a long time.


Edit: About that whole "Be a man and stop complaining about racism" trope that's been going around....

Enough of that. First, it really isn't up to white people what Asian masculinity or femininity should mean. Especially in a discussion about the worst of the worst portrayals in cinema. In a discussion thread that is almost entirely white people saying, "Well, Asian femininity is shopping and ugly hooker stereotypes, and men should be complacent about racism," no less.

And, of course, being a "real" man or woman always involves shutting up and letting the white people do whatever they want. Why is that?
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:11 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
Reputation: 11313
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlAndSparrow View Post
So, your defense is that the ugly stereotype that every Asian American has had to deal with is okay because it's true? That's your defense of that scene?
I never said that it is true in the sense that Asian or Vietnamese women engage in this behavior, or even that a plurality of them engaged in it during the Vietnam war; not by any stretch.

Calm yourself and stop giving in to your own hyperbole. It is quite unnecessary and unbecoming.

The reality is that prostitutes in Vietnam propositioned willing American soldiers. You know that this is the truth. It sucks; it was an ugly and horrible situation. This section of the film was a depiction of that reality.

Quote:
It doesn't help that you go on to favor anti-war sentiment (I don't like war, but I didn't ask for North Vietnam to invade -- being against involvement in the war isn't going to make something suddenly attractive to Vietnamese Americans who wouldn't even be here if it weren't for the invasion), and then you go on to say, "Well, black people are the real bad guys here."
I'm not saying that black people "are the real bad guys here," not by any stretch. Nice reach, though. Again: stop giving into your own hyperbole.

Just saying the truth, and one that has been repeated by many Asian-Americans: that black people are frequently openly racist towards Asians in American society. You are choosing to specifically single out racism from white people towards Asians, while using an example that is frequently used by non-whites as an example and omitting this reality.

Quote:
Let's be honest; the real bad guys were the French. The world would probably be a better place if America and England had decided to let Germany keep France after World War II (okay, not really, but I'm not sure why France got to stay imperialist pigs after the war).
Yes, the situation in Vietnam was more or less entirely France's fault, at the root; though, the US could have divested itself from the fiasco at any given time but instead chose not to for its own stupid reasons, which made a bad situation worse.

Quote:
If most white people are really terrified of saying racist things, I'd never know, because I hear it all enough. Enough not to take seriously the opinions of white people who try to tell me otherwise, certainly.
I really doubt that you do, living in heavily-Asian California, in a society that generally thinks positively of Asians, with their statistically higher-than-average levels of education (don't you have a PhD?), lower instances of crime, general assumptions of honesty, generally-benign treatment by the authorities, etc. From the level of frustration and anger you make evident from many of your posts, I can guess that you probably go out of your way to find reasons to feel offended in your day to day life.

Quote:
I'm tired of the "South Park" defense. People say, "Oh, yeah, it's okay to say something horrifically racist, because I'm quoting some serious art."
Oh, I hate South Park, too. Controversy for the sake of controversy.

Quote:
That doesn't make it okay to repeat.
I concur.

It is not okay to take lines from a movie like Roots and use them as epithets against black people, for example.

That doesn't mean that Roots should be taken out of circulation.

Quote:
It doesn't even make it okay for the serious art to say it that way. (That scene from the Kubrick flick was bad whatever its intentions were.) It's certainly not okay to take the most disgustingly racist portrayal of anything in just about any movie ever made and repeat it, over and over and over again forever.
So, we must censor all speech and expression that could at any point make someone feel uncomfortable, regardless of the truth, merit, or validity behind it?

Quote:
I know that "post-ironic" humor was a thing for a while. People would try to argue that it was okay to say racist things (even as a white person) because the racist statements were intended to satirize racists ("actual" racists, not the white people standing around using ethnic slurs, bad accents, and other stereotypes). This didn't work. Soon it became clear that people only wanted a license to say racist things.

People started quoting Eric Cartman because they wanted to be like him. People quoted Dave Chapelle and Chris Rock because they thought they could get away with it.

Sooner or later, white people need to learn that doing this stuff is not okay, even if they claim they're only acting racist in order to make a point. It's a worn-out point by now, and it's a point that's been used, often intentionally, to make non-white people miserable for a long time.
Satire is one of the most effective ways of changing opinions of people. When we decide that we must censor things to protect sensibilities (something green-lighted in popular social justice tropes these days that makes the rounds to justify similarly taking things out of context to use to mock and insult white people, ironically enough), then what do we do? We take away the ability of satire to invoke any sort of soul-searching or self-education in people. We tell an artist with something powerful to say that they can't say it, because some people may take it the wrong way.

Are you okay with censoring things for the sake of your own sensibilities?

No matter what, no matter where you are in the world, at some point or another, someone is going to say something to make you feel like crap. Someone uses a one-liner from a movie they, like you, have never seen to insult someone based on their ethnicity. That's a horrible thing to do.

Take that movie out of existence, thus removing the line. Come back to reality. There will be another insult that will come in its place.

Quote:
Edit: About that whole "Be a man and stop complaining about racism" trope that's been going around....

Enough of that. First, it really isn't up to white people what Asian masculinity or femininity should mean.
It's not up to white people to decide what gender norms are or aren't acceptable in other places in the world, of course.

It is acceptable to stop telling people who are acting like (bigoted, embittered) children, to stop acting like children when it does absolutely nothing positive for the discussion whatsoever. That is acceptable across all races and cultures. I would tell a white person who said the same things that you said about the portrayal of white people in media the exact same way.

Quote:
Especially in a discussion about the worst of the worst portrayals in cinema. In a discussion thread that is almost entirely white people saying, "Well, Asian femininity is shopping and ugly hooker stereotypes, and men should be complacent about racism," no less.

And, of course, being a "real" man or woman always involves shutting up and letting the white people do whatever they want. Why is that?
Well, you totally missed the point of it and instead used it as an opportunity to stamp your feet and vocalize your more or less directionless frustration. Not a very adult thing to do, is it? This much of it is not really a matter of race at all.

Stereotypes of Asian women being easy, being materialistic, etc are quite disgusting and hurt me personally, as these are stereotypes which affect my wife and many of my friends. Stereotypes about Asian men being "feminine" are also disgusting and hurt me personally; these belittle and insult very dear friends and family of mine, and I won't stand by and let them go unchecked. See my responses earlier in this thread re: Western misconceptions about Asian cultural norms, which I have rallied against here on these forums, many times. But most of the stereotypes you hear in the US these days revolve around, again, being better at most of the things that white people traditionally used as markers of success. You feel bad that people think that you make more money and are better educated than average, and instead want to be stereotyped as big-screen tough guys who blow stuff up and drive Mustangs or something?

Last edited by 415_s2k; 01-12-2016 at 01:31 PM..
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:34 PM
 
1,900 posts, read 835,719 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FC76-81 View Post
Actually the rap song that sampled portions of that scene is what you should be pissed at.
Of course! Blame Rap Music! LOL
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Old 01-12-2016, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Guangzhou, China
9,783 posts, read 13,383,780 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MustermannBB View Post
Of course! Blame Rap Music! LOL
More people probably know the line from that song than from the film at this point.

Classic tune.
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